What should i have done with this hand

blkmoney12

blkmoney12

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I was playing in the winners tournament this past sunday i had 43000 chips i was in the bb with k6 middle position calls the button calls sb calls and i check the flop comes a-6-a sb checkes i check middle position bets 2500 before i go on the blinds are 500-1000 there is 4000 in the pot now button folds sb fold i call the next card is and another ace i check and middle position goes all in for 38000 chips im stuck in a tough spot what should i have done differently and what would be ur decision ty?
 
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jwlaw35

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tough lay down but with the flop that came down I would have folded this hand thinking the better has the A or an over pair.. 10s maybe?
 
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ludomaniaco24

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Except that they are very good card premiun as it is said and that type rivals like being passive I always try not to play in average positions only I lose chips
 
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stokedog4

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Fold. Don't go broke in a limped pot! Yes you flopped a monster, but the ace on the turn in a multiway pot, easy fold imo.
 
Alexandr Svinarshyk

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Most of all was a bluff. I would make a check with a dip in the flop, the number of small blind
 
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ph_il

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Snap call.

No one is jamming the turn with an Ace in their hand. Jamming a pair here is possible but silly after betting flop and called in a multiway pot.

Not impossible for them to have a pair here, but this is almost always a bluff shove to rep a strong hand. Probably KQ or J10s type hands.

You could also 3bet preflop after everyone folds to represent the ace. You get 4bet, you fold. They fold, you win. If they call, you might get a cheap showdown after the turn (likely) goes check/check.
 
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Considering it's basically your tournament life, it's not a snap call. It's too tough a spot to call so folding makes the most sense. There's better spots to get your tournament life in and you're still comfortable sitting at 39 bigs.

With him limping MP pre, his range shouldn't be too wide. We can rule out broadways or suited connectors since opening with those are standard. I'd probably put him on a weak ace or pocket pairs. Flop bet is standard against checks from blinds, so it really doesn't tell us much.

River bet gives us a bit more information, we can rule out pocket pairs since an A pretty much beats him and he can't really put you on a 6. Which leaves us with him either having an A or air. There aren't too many air hands he'd just flat pre, so I'd give him credit for the A. The shove is unorthodox but it's the best way for him to really induce a call.
 
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ph_il

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Considering it's basically your tournament life, it's not a snap call. It's too tough a spot to call so folding makes the most sense. There's better spots to get your tournament life in and you're still comfortable sitting at 39 bigs.
...True. At 39 BBs, you're still sitting pretty comfortable.

I guess the safe option is to always fold the turn. Personally, I think this is an easy snap call.


With him limping MP pre, his range shouldn't be too wide. We can rule out broadways or suited connectors since opening with those are standard. I'd probably put him on a weak ace or pocket pairs. Flop bet is standard against checks from blinds, so it really doesn't tell us much.
...Flop bet is pretty standard, true. I think floating here with 2 pair is fairly standard as well as it might slowdown villain to where we get a cheap showdown.

I don't agree with ruling out broadways and suited connectors. With MP just limping in, their range is wide, but we can't necessarily rule out broadways and SCs of the bat. Betting out 67s on a flop of A-6-A when checked to you is an option. So, while I don't think we can put villain on a range yet, I don't think we can rule out any hands either.


River bet gives us a bit more information, we can rule out pocket pairs since an A pretty much beats him and he can't really put you on a 6. Which leaves us with him either having an A or air. There aren't too many air hands he'd just flat pre, so I'd give him credit for the A. The shove is unorthodox but it's the best way for him to really induce a call.
...Villain jammed on the turn, not the river. Which means there was 1 more card to go.

I agree, while villain could have a PP here, jamming 38 BBs doen't make sense because hero could easily be holding AX and slow playing the flop.

Nor does it make sense for villain to jam with quad Aces in this spot for 38 BBs into a 4 BB pot. There aren't a lot of hands that hero will call here to pay off villain. Not only that, but jamming on the turn instead of the river makes no sense because, if villain had quad aces, allowing hero to see the turn and improving their hand will probably entice a call a lot better than jamming on the turn. If I had quad aces on turn, I'd want my opponent to see a river card to pair up their Kx hand or maybe hit a 10 to hit their set. That'll likely give them more of an incentive to call.

As far as the jam being "unorthodox" I disagree. If villain had a monster lock on the hand, they're looking to extract value from a 4 BB pot and jamming 38 BBs isn't how they go about doing that. The question is, what hands does villain expect hero to call here for the 38 BB over shove? They're not calling K, Q high. No under pairs to the 6. Maybe over pairs 77-1010 might call here, but also might lean towards folding. JJ+ likely raises preflop, so it's unlikely hero has those hands. So, villain is never really get paid here, ever, on an A-6-A-A board.

What does make more sense, than jamming 38 BBs with quads, is a bluff shove with K high, a shove with 6x on the turn, or a shove with a smaller-med pair. All to represent a big hand. However, jamming with just a 6 or smaller-med pairs is only getting called by Ax, so you don't want to get a call. Nor do you earn value if you have the best hand (if hero doesn't have an A), so getting someone to fold and you picking up 4 BBs for a boat is nothing. So, I think a standard bet of 3/4 pot here to get called by worse is fine for value. Also, since villain has position over hero, if hero checks river, villain can check behind and go to cheap showdown.

The only way a shove makes sense here is if villain doesn't have a hand. If villain is way behind, they don't want to jam. If they're way ahead (as in have the hand locked down) they don't want to jam either.

If they have neither then, to pick up the pot, a bluff jam makes the most sense.

Not saying that they're always bluffing here, i've ran into quads before in similar situations. However, I think most of the time, players will look to extract value here on this pretty dead board.
above.

To add, I don't think folding is a bad option either. Like I said, definitely the safest option.

To me, the play makes little sense, and therefore (IMO) an easy call.
 
James_Moria

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I think in this situation the best would be to make a check!
 
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ph_il

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I think in this situation the best would be to make a check!
Yes. After our opponent shoves all in and the decision is on us, we should check.

Makes sense.

"I check."
"Sir, he's all-in."
"Oh, OK. I check!"
 
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daluby

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Yes. After our opponent shoves all in and the decision is on us, we should check.

Makes sense.

"I check."
"Sir, he's all-in."
"Oh, OK. I check!"

this could be the greatest strategy ever. can i try this on my wife?
 
pescaofish

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Fold Imo, there are 2 Aces and you dnt have any. so just wait for a better hand. :deal:
 
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Dodgethis2k

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I was playing in the winners tournament this past sunday i had 43000 chips i was in the bb with k6 middle position calls the button calls sb calls and i check the flop comes a-6-a sb checkes i check middle position bets 2500 before i go on the blinds are 500-1000 there is 4000 in the pot now button folds sb fold i call the next card is and another ace i check and middle position goes all in for 38000 chips im stuck in a tough spot what should i have done differently and what would be ur decision ty?

...folded pre-flop. Are you Gus Hansen?

No, I win tournaments and finish in the money a LOT.
I also fold junk. K6 is junk.

Yes. After our opponent shoves all in and the decision is on us, we should check.

Makes sense.

"I check."
"Sir, he's all-in."
"Oh, OK. I check!"


...then ask if you are allowed to Raise. From movies and TV I learned that you can Raise someone out of a pot they already have all of their money in (they are compelled to fold since they can't cover your entire bet).

Movies and TV wouldn't lie about that, would they?

Fold. Don't go broke in a limped pot! Yes you flopped a monster, but the ace on the turn in a multiway pot, easy fold imo.

What if the other guy had 77 up to KK, or A2 up to AK?
K6 is NOT a monster here. On a board of 666 or KK6 yes. Here (AA6 flop) no.

Stop trying to be Durr or Gus Hansen. Fold your junk. You'll last longer.
 
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ph_il

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Fold Imo, there are 2 Aces and you dnt have any. so just wait for a better hand. :deal:
3 aces on the board.

Does jamming 38 BBs into 4 BBs make sense to you?

...folded pre-flop. Are you Gus Hansen?

No, I win tournaments and finish in the money a LOT.
I also fold junk. K6 is junk.
Hero was in BB and checked their option.

Even McNits don't fold their BB when they can check their option.

...then ask if you are allowed to Raise. From movies and TV I learned that you can Raise someone out of a pot they already have all of their money in (they are compelled to fold since they can't cover your entire bet).

Movies and TV wouldn't lie about that, would they?
1. Read the comment that lead to my reply in relation to the original post.

2. What old-timey movies are you watching where players are forced to fold can't call a raise? That hasn't been used in many years. It's impossible to force a fold when that player is all-in.

What if the other guy had 77 up to KK, or A2 up to AK?
K6 is NOT a monster here. On a board of 666 or KK6 yes. Here (AA6 flop) no.

Stop trying to be Durr or Gus Hansen. Fold your junk. You'll last longer.
I don't think you quoted the right person.

Jamming 77-KK makes no sense. They only get called by better and get worse to fold. Risking 38 BBs makes no sense both for risking MTT life and for losing value. Unless you're happy to risk 38 BBs to pick up 4 BBs.

Also, 1010+ is likely raising preflop. And they aren't jamming an Ace here because they lose a ton of value. To put it another way, even if they win 4BBs, they still lose out on a potential 38 BBs by jamming the turn.

I confidently call this jam 100% of the time.
 
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