What to do with 88 here?

[Larmuar]

Hi, nice to be part of this community! I have a hand I like to hear some opinions about, thank you

Final Table of the 12$ Deepstack Catfish on 888 Poker, 7 Players left:

4000/8000 Ante

Hero (BTN): 24.27 BB
SB: 72.98 BB (VPIP: 18.61, PFR: 13.69, 3Bet Preflop: 5.94, hands: 1,078)
BB: 19.82 BB (VPIP: 18.50, PFR: 11.61, 3Bet Preflop: 3.19, Hands: 231)
UTG: 54.41 BB (VPIP: 26.83, PFR: 18.35, 3Bet Preflop: 7.89, Hands: 165)
UTG+1: 48.67 BB (VPIP: 20.41, PFR: 15.28, 3Bet Preflop: 8.06, Hands: 296)
MP: 67.25 BB (VPIP: 36.61, PFR: 29.73, 3Bet Preflop: 12.37, Hands: 225)
CO: 76.98 BB (VPIP: 19.41, PFR: 12.50, 3Bet Preflop: 6.25, Hands: 170)

7 players post ante of 0.13 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.38 BB) Hero has 8♦ 8♥

UTG raises to 2 BB, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 2 BB, fold, fold

Flop: (6.38 BB, 2 players) 7♠ 5♣ K♠
UTG bets 2.1 BB, Hero calls 2.1 BB

Turn: (10.58 BB, 2 players) T♦
UTG checks, Hero checks

River: (10.58 BB, 2 players) 6♦
UTG checks, Hero checks

UTG shows 9♥ T♥ (One Pair, Tens)
(Pre 49%, Flop 26%, Turn 95%)
Hero mucks 8♦ 8♥ (One Pair, Eights)
(Pre 51%, Flop 74%, Turn 5%)
UTG wins 10.58 BB

 

[fa1920]

It was a very reasonable hand to send a full preflop in that situation, you are not interested in seeing many flops with your stack, it is a hand that you are interested in doubling.

 

[Principg]

As played pre-flop; i would raise him after flop, not just call.
On flop he is doing c-bet, which is standard, raising there is def best option, you want to see where are you at on flop..

 

[ammje]

I think you played the hand well, maybe pre flop, you have done 3bet, and the flop cbet, you would have won the hand, and had gained a little more chips.
I think the 3bet with 88 is good, what do you think?

 

[Larmuar]

Hey Guys, thank you for yur insights! I was wondering about your raising advise: Should the raise be an all in then, or what do you suggest? I'm feeling that u'll find yourself in an awkward situation if you raise (not AI) with this 24bb stack.

Preflop i think the only raise option is to shove AI, dont you think? And for the Flop play @Principg: How much would you 2bet and what do you do if he 3bet shoves?

In general I think I wont EVER like a just-raise on the Flop with my Stacksize. Call or shove are the options in my Eyes, but maybe someone has some other thoughts about that situation?

And what stacksize would you recommend shoving this Flop? (maybe this question is obsolete, because those stacksizes should already shove preflop?)

 

[Bozovicdj]

I would probably shove pre, but it is close. I think that you don't have enough room to re-raise and then fold to villain's shove, but at the same time, 25BB is an OK stack, not critical yet, so 88 is really a marginal case.
Once you opted to call pre, the way you played it was quite fine. Personally, would stab it on the flop, there are two under cards whereas, if Villain missed that K he is likely to fold a lot of AX hands. In any case, pretty standard play after calling pre

 

[puzzlefish]

The way you played it is okay. You could have tried representing some Kx hand which may have had better results. Min raise on flop. Value bet turn and river would make it look like you are pretty comfortably value betting a king. The question becomes how much of a calling station is your villain.

 

[Gr34tWh1t3]

Well ,the best part is you haven't lost to many chips,but I would have played different the hand .
I would have took one of this 2 lines:
1:wemt all in with my chip stack size , as I would have looked to double up,the 88 doesnt play to well post flop unless you hit a set.
2: i would 3 bet and and get worse hands fold and to rep a stronger hand ,yoi can win the pot there if not CB on flop and most hands fold there unless they had AK, or KQ but them hands would have 4 bet you all in pre flop.

 

[Larmuar]

Interesting..., I never gave the option to raise/ 3betting with this stacksize much thought. I'am still not entirely convinced I think, but that is the beauty of poker, no ?
@Bozovicdj, by "stabbing it" on the flop u mean shove over his c-bet? and if you have to take one of the two options pre would you prefer to fold or shove?

 

[Ryan Laplante]

Vs a loose aggro opponent from mp1 on 24bb I would shove this preflop.

 

[ammje]

Protential thank you very much for your advice, a player on your level, take the time to come help us means a lot.
Thanks for clearing that doubt, was not sure if it was a good idea to 3bet with 24BB, or was it better to shove.
Congratulations on your outstanding accomplishment, I hope someday achieve win some of what you've won.

 

[ph_il]

Ship pre.

 

[neverbluff]

It really depends on the opponent. If he tends to fold when he misses the flop, you could try 3 betting pre and then jamming good flops. This can be risky though with such a short stack. I'd only do this versus an opponent who is opening too wide.

As played, I think this was fine. You lost the minimum.I think you could have pushed him off his exact hand if you bet multiple streets, but there is probably a better spot to bet than versus an UTG rfi.

 

[playinggameswithu]

I'd either do what you did or 3.5x his bet on the flop. I would not want to lose 24BB with ICM with a no edge coin flip.

 

[ZenGreen]

shoving 25bb here. Too short to be flatting how many more times can you keep doing that with hands youre probably ahead with preflop, in this case you would of picked it up and T9 is not calling off here. Big time opp to double up instead of playing a hand that will play bad post anyways.

 

[iceiceice]

Shove pre. Since he showed up with 109s here, your pocket 8s should be way ahead of his opening range. You can win the 4bbs uncontested here and add 12% to your stack. As played, you could reasonably turn your hand into a bluff on the river. He shouldnt have too many kings that check back this river. You also block the nut straights.

 

[popstani]

For me, call pre flop, and reraise after flop would be the best play, maybe even all in, depending on what kind of player villain is.

 

[Minus272c]

Playing 88 in bb vs UTG on finale table with 24bb stack

Theres only 2 options in my book

3 bet all in - you have a perfect shove stack size in that position

Fold - playing a mid pair out of position against UTG raise is a long term loosing play.

Personally i woulda folded this one, beacause of the money ladder.

Keep get them finale tables :dancing2:

 

[AKQ]

As played pre-flop; i would raise him after flop, not just call.
On flop he is doing c-bet, which is standard, raising there is def best option, you want to see where are you at on flop..

Phill Hellmuth wrote a great book called Hellmuth guide to limit holdem and even though its for limit. I love the importance of knowing where u are in a hand. Not that your call down was bad or anything but theres a lot to be gained by reraising the flop including making a better hand fold such as JJ or QQ and if you get him to shove over you than you know exactly how dead your hand is. Also by reraising flops like this with middle pair the people on your table will realize this and you can get alotta action when you flop a great hand and they think ..well he check raises with 2 second pair all the time and call you down with top pair no kicker thinking they might be good. Certain plays may not be profitable or the best way to play them but causes you to have far more action in subsequent hands. In my mind its hard to make a bad knowledgeable poker play that doesn't pay off down the road as long as you watch them as much as you watch yourself

 

[Larmuar]

Wow, thank you alot for all your insights, guys! I learnt already a lot, reviewing this hand with you, its just super nice! i saw two convincing ways to play this hand, the first one to shove pre, was in my mind already but the 2nd one to raise/fold the flop was somewhat new in my understanding of poker, but now i think it's a great way to approach such a spot.