Valueraise the River?

L

Larmuar

Enthusiast
12$ Deepstack Catfish on 888 Poker. BB 2000, about 30pl left.

Hello! I made a classical "too fast call" on the River with my 2 pair. Later i wondered if I could have raised this Hand on the River? And more general; when would you advise to raise 2 pairs on the River? Thank you!


Hero (BB): 32.78 BB
UTG: 18.48 BB (VPIP: 21.92, PFR: 10.29, 3Bet Preflop: 8.00, hands: 73)
UTG+1: 18.27 BB (VPIP: 25.32, PFR: 21.05, 3Bet Preflop: 10.71, Hands: 80)
MP: 43.43 BB (VPIP: 20.57, PFR: 13.77, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, Hands: 143)
MP+1: 42.73 BB (VPIP: 15.00, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 41)
CO: 35.27 BB (VPIP: 20.95, PFR: 14.39, 3Bet Preflop: 7.55, Hands: 148)
BTN: 19.13 BB (VPIP: 33.53, PFR: 18.29, 3Bet Preflop: 9.72, Hands: 171)
SB: 92.2 BB (VPIP: 22.08, PFR: 17.57, 3Bet Preflop: 4.00, Hands: 78)

8 players post ante of 0.13 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.5 BB) Hero has K 6

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, SB calls 0.5 BB, Hero raises to 3 BB, SB calls 2 BB

Flop: (7 BB, 2 players) 9 T 6
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (7 BB, 2 players) 8
SB checks, Hero checks

River: (7 BB, 2 players) K
SB bets 3.47 BB, Hero calls 3.47 BB

SB shows T 9 (Two Pair, Tens and Nines)
(Pre 46%, Flop 51%, Turn 65%)
Hero shows K 6 (Two Pair, Kings and Sixes)
(Pre 54%, Flop 49%, Turn 35%)
Hero wins 13.95 BB
 
RomaS

RomaS

Rising Star
What are you scared on the river? You got a second pair. You can triple the rate of the villain. Put 10-12 BB instead of the bell.
 
R

RocwX

Rock Star
About your second question: "when would you advise to raise 2 pairs on the River?"


First, the texture of the table tells you the SB doesn't have a flush. He could have a straight, but the size of his river bet is too small. It's also very unlikely that he would bet small to encourage you to raise him so he would then re-raise with a straight, I think he would just bet big and hope you call. The other hand that could beat you here would be a set (three of a kind), but I don't see him just calling preflop with a pocket pair. You had two pair and one of them is the top pair available. I think it's a pretty safe raise here.
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In more general terms, you have to be able to feel the texture of the table and read your opponent's moves and that comes with a lot of practice.
 
L

Larmuar

Enthusiast
Ty for your thoughts! What do you think about the checkback on flop & turn (with bottompair and FD)?
 
Bozovicdj

Bozovicdj

Legend
Awards
15
Preflop is fine.
Flop: definitely bet. Pair and a FD, even if you are behind, you have a million outs. Look at the percentages, even against top 2 pair you have 54% chance to win, making you a favourite.
As played, check the turn, then just call the river. Now, I am fairly aggressive player but I would not value that river. Because of all the checking on the flop/turn and the fact this is SB vs BB, considering villain has 3 times your stack, he can play any two cards! That means a lot of 7x hands and also a lot of Kx hands. Meaning there is a fair chance he also picked up 2 pair on the river or checked a turn straight hoping you might try and bluff if you missed the board.
What would happen if you re-raised the river for value, and Villain shoved? Would you call or fold? Either way it would be a very difficult decision, and that is why I would just call the river.
 
puzzlefish

puzzlefish

Wants to be added to your do-not-call list
Awards
1
CA
I think you played the hand suspecting the villain may be checking back a straight at you. Nothing wrong with doing this once in a while and especially when deep given what people play on 888.
 
L

Larmuar

Enthusiast
@Bozovicdj

Given that I would bet the Flop (taking away the preflop aggression lead):
1. How much would you bet? (and if he raises there, its a clear shove right?)
2. If he calls, what you do on that Turn if he checks to you again? What do you do if he donks(!)?
 
Bozovicdj

Bozovicdj

Legend
Awards
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@Bozovicdj

Given that I would bet the Flop (taking away the preflop aggression lead):
1. How much would you bet? (and if he raises there, its a clear shove right?)
2. If he calls, what you do on that Turn if he checks to you again? What do you do if he donks(!)?


Something standard is 30-50% of the pot, so let's say 3BB.

On the turn, if Villain checks, you can either check back or bet, however, in case we opt to make a bet, I would make it bigger, like 65% of the pot, trying to shake villain off of hands like JT or some 9X. If Villain donks the turn, because that 8 hits his range very much (97, 67, T7), we probably fold.

In the same time, if we got re-raised on the flop, I would very much consider a shove, because we have strong chances of winning, against most of V's range
 
L

LuisBoaC

Rock Star
Pre-flop I'm not sure I'd like to be building a pot with K6, a larger raise (4-5BB) might win you the hand there or I'd check. As you played, on the flop after villain checks I'm definitely c-betting about half the pot, you're bottom.pair may be best right now and you're building a pot for if you hit your flush. I'm happy to check the turn and take the free card. When the king hits I don't think there's a lot in his range that beat you as he would have raised somewhere earlier in the hand with AK through to K9 or 99/TT/66. JQ would fit with all his plays though so I'd probably just call then evaluate the maths of calling vs raising later cos I'm still learning!
 
Last edited:
Poker_Mike

Poker_Mike

Legend
Awards
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12$ Deepstack Catfish on 888 Poker. BB 2000, about 30pl left.

Hello! I made a classical "too fast call" on the River with my 2 pair. Later i wondered if I could have raised this Hand on the River? And more general; when would you advise to raise 2 pairs on the River? Thank you!


Hero (BB): 32.78 BB
UTG: 18.48 BB (VPIP: 21.92, PFR: 10.29, 3Bet Preflop: 8.00, Hands: 73)
UTG+1: 18.27 BB (VPIP: 25.32, PFR: 21.05, 3Bet Preflop: 10.71, Hands: 80)
MP: 43.43 BB (VPIP: 20.57, PFR: 13.77, 3Bet Preflop: 9.09, Hands: 143)
MP+1: 42.73 BB (VPIP: 15.00, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 41)
CO: 35.27 BB (VPIP: 20.95, PFR: 14.39, 3Bet Preflop: 7.55, Hands: 148)
BTN: 19.13 BB (VPIP: 33.53, PFR: 18.29, 3Bet Preflop: 9.72, Hands: 171)
SB: 92.2 BB (VPIP: 22.08, PFR: 17.57, 3Bet Preflop: 4.00, Hands: 78)

8 players post ante of 0.13 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.5 BB) Hero has K¢¼ 6¢¼

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, SB calls 0.5 BB, Hero raises to 3 BB, SB calls 2 BB

Flop: (7 BB, 2 players) 9¢¼ T¢¼ 6¢À
SB checks, Hero checks

Turn: (7 BB, 2 players) 8¢¾
SB checks, Hero checks

River: (7 BB, 2 players) K
SB bets 3.47 BB, Hero calls 3.47 BB

SB shows T 9 (Two Pair, Tens and Nines)
(Pre 46%, Flop 51%, Turn 65%)
Hero shows K¢¼ 6¢¼ (Two Pair, Kings and Sixes)
(Pre 54%, Flop 49%, Turn 35%)
Hero wins 13.95 BB


I don't hate the idea of raising for value on the river. Just between the blinds....always kinda weird.

BUT, there was no action until the river, which doesn't give you a lot of information about his hand. And, what is your plan if he re-raises or shoves?

And what hand is calling your raise? - other than the hand he actually had....although he might fold here.....and all you've done is re-opened the betting.

QJ and any 7 makes a straight.

Personally, I would have bet the flop and turn for value.

Good luck !
 
Newmember_5

Newmember_5

Enthusiast
I would raise on the river with two pair sometimes. If the risk to lose is too high and there lies a pocket (for example) 10s then i must check probably, but a raise can be good cause i have two pair with good cards i guess and if concurrence have three of a kind he will reraise or not? Hope that u read that sentences. Good luck!
 
_420_420_

_420_420_

Enthusiast
Well, I would say that unless you are afraid the guy had a set or something, there really is no reason not to raise when you river the two pair. If he had a set, I think he would have been betting on the turn, the board was wet. In fact, why didn't you bet the turn/flop with a pair and flush draw? He might have raised you but you would have a good amount of equity to call. Then when you river the two pair, he might even bet into you again, then you'd really get some value.
 
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