Should This Hand Be Mucked?

J

Jonnysmithh

Rising Star
I play for a pub league and there's 4 people left on the final table, I raised pre with KQ of Diamonds, two others call. The flop comes Jack high with two diamonds, I bet and one calls. Turn comes 9 of diamonds, I bet just short of the other guys stack, he says all in and I call. I show him my flush and he says something like "it's yours - I'm beaten - I can't win" puts his cards over the line face down and brings his hands back. So I think I've won and the dealer deals out the river anyway and it's a 9. He then says "unless I hit one of them!" Takes his cards from behind the line facedown and turns over J9. I thought I'd won this hand but he took the chips. Thoughts please?
 
dealio96

dealio96

The LAG Monkeys
Awards
5
I play for a pub league and there's 4 people left on the final table, I raised pre with KQ of Diamonds, two others call. The flop comes Jack high with two diamonds, I bet and one calls. Turn comes 9 of diamonds, I bet just short of the other guys stack, he says all in and I call. I show him my flush and he says something like "it's yours - I'm beaten - I can't win" puts his cards over the line face down and brings his hands back. So I think I've won and the dealer deals out the river anyway and it's a 9. He then says "unless I hit one of them!" Takes his cards from behind the line facedown and turns over J9. I thought I'd won this hand but he took the chips. Thoughts please?


Well if he's all in, his hand isn't officially mucked until the river is dealt(unless he actually throws his hand into the muck). Although you mentioned this was a pub league, rules aren't as strict as casinos are, so idk.

If he didn't fully throw his hand away, yes he could still pick up his hand and turn it over, after announcing that you won. His verbal announcement means nothing if he exposes the wining hand.
 
C

colbear

Visionary
No matter where you play his hand is live . face down doesn't mean anything . Verbal you win means nothing so unless he flings his cards on the muck pile they are live
 
MattRyder

MattRyder

🛸 Happy World UFO Day!
Awards
13
Yeah. His money's in the middle (all of it). The deal hasn't been completed. The pot is his. I don't really see it any other way.
 
DougPkrMonsta

DougPkrMonsta

Visionary
Awards
15
He should win the pot but was out of line with his saying he can't win and pushing his hand forward - really the dealer could have mucked his hand after his actions/statement.

Unfortunately for you that didn't happen and in the situation that played out his hand should still be live and the pot should be his after that river card.

Sounds like you did everything right and took a bad beat, try not to fixate on the results or what you opponent did. Good luck to you! :D
 
E

EPTX12

Enthusiast
I dealt for a while in Vegas. Unfortunately his hand is live still. It was retrievable. If it was lost in the muck pile that would be a different story. I would give him a warning as well as the floor to let the player know to be careful.

When he threw his cards in the dealer should have grabbed them and muck em. Unfortunely that didn't happen.

The real deal is how does that 9d come 😕


Gl out there🤠
 
RidersFan

RidersFan

Legend
Awards
11
He's all in on the turn so he can't muck his hand. The dealer should have tabled it before dealing the river but regardless his hand is still live.
 
M

microse

Rock Star
If the play moves the cards forward, face down and unprotectedly (especially when making the statement he did), the dealer should have collected the cards as that should constitute him mucking his hand. The dealer did not do that.

Now as this is a pub league, that isn't very surprising, but definitely a faux pas.
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

Broomcorn's uncle
If the play moves the cards forward, face down and unprotectedly (especially when making the statement he did), the dealer should have collected the cards as that should constitute him mucking his hand. The dealer did not do that.

If there was still live action then yes, sure, that would constitute a fold and the dealer should muck the hand. This was an all-in situation though and the player couldn't fold.

In fact, allowing a player to muck their hand in a tournament spot like this leaves the door open for angle shooting / soft play / collusion, so not mucking the hand even if the player wants to is almost certainly the correct thing to do.
 
detroitjunkie

detroitjunkie

Visionary
Awards
4
If there was still live action then yes, sure, that would constitute a fold and the dealer should muck the hand. This was an all-in situation though and the player couldn't fold.

In fact, allowing a player to muck their hand in a tournament spot like this leaves the door open for angle shooting / soft play / collusion, so not mucking the hand even if the player wants to is almost certainly the correct thing to do.


As always Oz hits a HR (as well as a few others).

It is a rule that you can NOT muck your hand in this situation. Tell the dealer this is the rule so next time its not an issue, and yes, the dealer should have turned the hand over before putting out the river.
 
J

jesus133

Rock Star
I think it's showdown so it's not folded but at least here in Peru varies according to each poker room
 
xkenjix

xkenjix

Rock Star
if its tourney and he can identify his cards, cards are supposed to be turned over. so unfortuantely the pot is his, if it was cash then different story
 
lsbenn

lsbenn

Rock Star
I know you say this is a pub league so I am assuming this a tournament. Unfortunate for you this is a live hand.
Other than the dealer not making both players table their hands in an all-in situation, this was poor poker etiquette of the other players actions.
 
mariuspoker1

mariuspoker1

Rock Star
Awards
1
I play for a pub league and there's 4 people left on the final table, I raised pre with KQ of Diamonds, two others call. The flop comes Jack high with two diamonds, I bet and one calls. Turn comes 9 of diamonds, I bet just short of the other guys stack, he says all in and I call. I show him my flush and he says something like "it's yours - I'm beaten - I can't win" puts his cards over the line face down and brings his hands back. So I think I've won and the dealer deals out the river anyway and it's a 9. He then says "unless I hit one of them!" Takes his cards from behind the line facedown and turns over J9. I thought I'd won this hand but he took the chips. Thoughts please?
I believe what matters first are the rules of the host. Anyway in my opinion how you throw the cards on the table or what the players says doesn't count on establish who is the winner of the hand; the winner should be establish after all cards are deal and the players show their cards ( I'm speaking about all in situations).
 
T

thejuice1

Enthusiast
I play for a pub league and there's 4 people left on the final table, I raised pre with KQ of Diamonds, two others call. The flop comes Jack high with two diamonds, I bet and one calls. Turn comes 9 of diamonds, I bet just short of the other guys stack, he says all in and I call. I show him my flush and he says something like "it's yours - I'm beaten - I can't win" puts his cards over the line face down and brings his hands back. So I think I've won and the dealer deals out the river anyway and it's a 9. He then says "unless I hit one of them!" Takes his cards from behind the line facedown and turns over J9. I thought I'd won this hand but he took the chips. Thoughts please?


if he threw his hand in face down, and it hit the muck pile, then yes of course its dead. and you should've gotten the pot. once his hand was thrown in face down, the dealer shoudlve immediately collected it as it is then a mucked and dead hand. This place needs to find a dealer that has a clue
 
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