MTT open push

[aqqr]

I started playing SNG 9max [45 players] $0.25 on "pokerstars" (I haven't money). I noticed that at any stage of the tournament my opponents calling all-in pre-flop with Ax+, 22+. How do you feel about open push with [AQ+, QQ+] with the 10/20 blinds? If you saw the opponent's cards, would you agree to play 75bb with AK vs AQ (75/25)? Of course this is very stupid in other games, but since they make bad calls, then why miss the advantageous opportunity? For example, this range [AQ+, QQ+] vs. [ATo+, A2s +, 77+] wins in 62% of cases.

 

[Alex Houngan]

And you can write in one topic?
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/tournament-poker-59/sng-9max-brm-373781/

 

[aqqr]

And you can write in one topic?
https://www.cardschat.com/forum/tournament-poker-59/sng-9max-brm-373781/

Yeah. It's bad idea?

 

[TheShek]

It's a good move if they are calling that light. You will get a huge stack early and should be able to use it to cash and ideally win. I play like this often if I think my opponents will call. In free rolls I'll shove all in with 100 BB with those hands because players just can't fold 98s, TT, 66, J9o, A3o, A9, etc. You are a huge favourite.

 

[neafana]

I think it's ok. But you have to be sure that it is a bad player. It will be a high variance play, but at the end you will win more money.

Also, it matters a lot if know how to use your big stack against your opponents.

If you are tilting a lot, it's better to call them only with QQ+.(I was tilting a lot in the past, throwing things, swearing, etc) Now when I decide to call a loose player with AQo (for more than 50BB), I don't tilt anymore when he shows 45o and wins.

 

[aqqr]

It's a good move if they are calling that light. You will get a huge stack early and should be able to use it to cash and ideally win. I play like this often if I think my opponents will call. In free rolls I'll shove all in with 100 BB with those hands because players just can't fold 98s, TT, 66, J9o, A3o, A9, etc. You are a huge favourite.

Yeah. In freerolls, this must be done.

 

[aqqr]

I think it's ok. But you have to be sure that it is a bad player. It will be a high variance play, but at the end you will win more money.

Also, it matters a lot if know how to use your big stack against your opponents.

If you are tilting a lot, it's better to call them only with QQ+.(I was tilting a lot in the past, throwing things, swearing, etc) Now when I decide to call a loose player with AQo (for more than 50BB), I don't tilt anymore when he shows 45o and wins.

I played only 3 days (159 tournaments). In the first two days I used open push, in the third no (only the standard game). On the first day I won a lot, in the second I played a small minus. On the third day I won about 15bi. So I agree with you that AQ and AK are dispersive. QQ+ will win several times more often. In general, I get in prizes in 18% of cases (this is normal for such games), in the top three in 8% of cases and in the first place in 3% of cases. Usually all the days started like this: losing 20 tournaments in a row and then several prizes at once (top 3). I play 12 tables without statistics. Now I have $35 (140bi), then I'm thinking of playing $1 SNG 9 max Knockout [regular speed], when I save $50. But I do not have a chart on which I have to make a call push, LOL. In general, I do not specialize in tournaments. I play well only HU SNG.

 

[gon4iypes]

try looking online...search for push/fold charts...you will find a ton of information...gl

 

[Mateo]

I wouldn't make a habit of it, but if there's 2 of you only, and you have a read that they will be calling light, go for it. Beware with AQ/AK though, they may have a pocket pair when calling

 

[sryulaw]

this is great for you, adjust to their range, and create the habit of being in front of them when paying these All in. Low buy-in tournaments is normal to see this! so it is good to play in other rooms too, so you do not feel so much the variance of this players.

 

[Finalist2010]

in my opinion there is no reason for shoving all in with aq,ak in 20/40 blind level. i just raise 3bb-3,5 or would call in late position to decide after the flop how to continue playing. all pocket pairs are more likely to win this hand.... if i had been the aggresor i mostly do a conti bet after the flop if i dont hit anything and the oponet calls the conti bet i usually give up the hand i meaning of playing check/fold.

 

[aqqr]

I wouldn't make a habit of it, but if there's 2 of you only, and you have a read that they will be calling light, go for it. Beware with AQ/AK though, they may have a pocket pair when calling

Yup. AQ+ it's very risking.

 

[aqqr]

this is great for you, adjust to their range, and create the habit of being in front of them when paying these All in. Low buy-in tournaments is normal to see this! so it is good to play in other rooms too, so you do not feel so much the variance of this players.

I can't afford it yet... I play only in tournaments for $0.25 [9max, 45 people], I won only 50 bi for 5 days. It's only $12. Next I want going on $0.5 SNG 9max [Turbo]. Do you think it's normal for a "Turbo" to have 100bi to avoid risk?

 

[aqqr]

in my opinion there is no reason for shoving all in with aq,ak in 20/40 blind level. i just raise 3bb-3,5 or would call in late position to decide after the flop how to continue playing. all pocket pairs are more likely to win this hand.... if i had been the aggresor i mostly do a conti bet after the flop if i dont hit anything and the oponet calls the conti bet i usually give up the hand i meaning of playing check/fold.

I agree that post-flop does not need to make crazy actions. Anyway, they don't know how to fold a cards.

 

[Ragequit]

Interesting question. From a pure EV perspective, your calling range will win in the long run. The problem as the guys mentioned above is the Variance. You would need to be very confident about their calling range. Over a million hands, that call is going to be ok, but the percentages are still a little close to risk your whole stack @10/20 on a coinflippy deal. If this were a cash game and we were dealing with direct EV then yes you must seize every small edge. But in a tournament it's not always clear if it is a good strategy because the chips you just won are worth half of the chips you just risked (From an ICM perspective). On that basis, during low blinds I like to use a calling range which is at least a 67% favourite over the Villain range I'm facing. So in your example [AQ+, QQ+] vs. [ATo+, A2s +, 77+] = 62% favourite. That's reasonable. But for me personally, I would adjust that calling range to [AK, KK+] during low blinds. This should push your wins up above 2/3rds. This may seem too tight, but I don't think it is. You're not doubling up, when you double up. Because the chips gained aren't worth as much. Therefore you don't need to win more than half of the time, you need to win more than 2/3rds of the time. Sklansky's Gap concept is very relevant for a question like this. You need a stronger range to call a shove than you would need to make that same shove yourself. When you make that call with [AQ+, QQ+] vs. [ATo+, A2s +, 77+], the hand is over. You've called, and now the only way you're going to win the pot is by having the best hand. You have no fold equity. Conversely, when that player shoves with [ATo+, A2s +, 77+] then:

Villain Chance of Winning = {Equity of [ATo+, A2s +, 77+]} + {Fold Equity}​

​

Hero Chance of Winning = {Equity of [AQ+, QQ+]} + {0 Fold Equity}

​

Therefore I think your calling range needs more built in strength than their shoving range to compensate for you having 0 Fold equity. When you're offering your whole stack to another player early in a tournament, it needs to be worth the risk. Personally, I recommend a 67% minimum range advantage. That's just me. Every player should play how they want to. But I think if you tighten that range to {AK KK+} you're going to crush the open shoving fish a lot more often.

 

[SuperPwn]

Move up stakes as fast as possible to where people are playing real poker instead of calling all in shoves with Ax or 22 during the first blind level. Making adjustments like this may work at super low stakes, but playing like that will build habits that won't help you at higher stakes. Try playing your hands normally unless you have a really good read on a fish that will call huge all-ins with bad hands.

 

[aqqr]

Interesting question. From a pure EV perspective, your calling range will win in the long run. The problem as the guys mentioned above is the Variance. You would need to be very confident about their calling range. Over a million hands, that call is going to be ok, but the percentages are still a little close to risk your whole stack @10/20 on a coinflippy deal. If this were a cash game and we were dealing with direct EV then yes you must seize every small edge. But in a tournament it's not always clear if it is a good strategy because the chips you just won are worth half of the chips you just risked (From an ICM perspective). On that basis, during low blinds I like to use a calling range which is at least a 67% favourite over the Villain range I'm facing. So in your example [AQ+, QQ+] vs. [ATo+, A2s +, 77+] = 62% favourite. That's reasonable. But for me personally, I would adjust that calling range to [AK, KK+] during low blinds. This should push your wins up above 2/3rds. This may seem too tight, but I don't think it is. You're not doubling up, when you double up. Because the chips gained aren't worth as much. Therefore you don't need to win more than half of the time, you need to win more than 2/3rds of the time. Sklansky's Gap concept is very relevant for a question like this. You need a stronger range to call a shove than you would need to make that same shove yourself. When you make that call with [AQ+, QQ+] vs. [ATo+, A2s +, 77+], the hand is over. You've called, and now the only way you're going to win the pot is by having the best hand. You have no fold equity. Conversely, when that player shoves with [ATo+, A2s +, 77+] then:

Villain Chance of Winning = {Equity of [ATo+, A2s +, 77+]} + {Fold Equity}​

​

Hero Chance of Winning = {Equity of [AQ+, QQ+]} + {0 Fold Equity}

​

Therefore I think your calling range needs more built in strength than their shoving range to compensate for you having 0 Fold equity. When you're offering your whole stack to another player early in a tournament, it needs to be worth the risk. Personally, I recommend a 67% minimum range advantage. That's just me. Every player should play how they want to. But I think if you tighten that range to {AK KK+} you're going to crush the open shoving fish a lot more often.

AK is also very risky... Look, QQ+ vs. [77+,A3s+,ATo+] wins in 72%. I understand that this is a very stupid game. But the meaning of poker is to make profitable decisions. If these donkeys can play at a loss, and we will have 72%, then why not take advantage of this situation. Again, this is a tournament for 45 people ($0.25). Of the 220 tournaments, I won 9 (4%). At the same time not knowing how to play them and not knowing the ranges of calling all-in. I'm just winning chips on the post-flop and in the heads-up game. Therefore, building a large stack in the beginning for me is the main goal. I'd better get out of the tournament before the prizes, but I do not want to sit with the small stack at the final table. Thanks to such a risky game, I often fall into the top 3 (10%). I did not play in tournaments, I used to play only in heads-up 3,500 tournaments 3 years ago.

 

[aqqr]

Move up stakes as fast as possible to where people are playing real poker instead of calling all in shoves with Ax or 22 during the first blind level. Making adjustments like this may work at super low stakes, but playing like that will build habits that won't help you at higher stakes. Try playing your hands normally unless you have a really good read on a fish that will call huge all-ins with bad hands.

I agree! I'm talking about micro-limits, where the crazy game. It is clear that even at slightly higher limits you don't need to do such stupid things.

 

[Ragequit]

Yes of course QQ Vs. [77+,A3s+,ATo+] is a monster and you should call with that hand if you are sure that this is their exact shoving range. My point was that it's safer to assume first that you're up against the best part of that range. Calling hands need to be so much stronger than shoving hands. Now, there's a flipside to this. If they are shoving into you and are a decent player. Then that means they KNOW about the gap concept and are therefore able to make weaker shoves if they KNOW you are also playing optimally. We're getting into GTO here so I don't want to go off the point. My overall advice is to call cautiously with most ranges. If you think their shove is likely to be in the top third of [77+,A3s+,ATo+], then only call with {AK KK+}. If they're a GTO reg or a fish who hasn't a clue, then maybe you can begin calling with {AQ QQ+}. It is entirely situation and opponent dependant.

 

[vavilen_]

only TT + seems to me QQ + too tight!

 

[aqqr]

Yes of course QQ Vs. [77+,A3s+,ATo+] is a monster and you should call with that hand if you are sure that this is their exact shoving range. My point was that it's safer to assume first that you're up against the best part of that range. Calling hands need to be so much stronger than shoving hands. Now, there's a flipside to this. If they are shoving into you and are a decent player. Then that means they KNOW about the gap concept and are therefore able to make weaker shoves if they KNOW you are also playing optimally. We're getting into GTO here so I don't want to go off the point. My overall advice is to call cautiously with most ranges. If you think their shove is likely to be in the top third of [77+,A3s+,ATo+], then only call with {AK KK+}. If they're a GTO reg or a fish who hasn't a clue, then maybe you can begin calling with {AQ QQ+}. It is entirely situation and opponent dependant.

Hey. I meant that we do shove first, and they make a call with a range much weaker [88+, A7s+, A9o+].

 

[IcyNicy]

I don't know what you are talking about. What percentages? Tell it better that idiot who called my allin of AJo with A2o and won with straight.

 

[aqqr]

I don't know what you are talking about. What percentages? Tell it better that idiot who called my allin of AJo with A2o and won with straight.

Hey. I'm talking about the fact that if an opponent makes a pre-flop call open shove with 75bb with the hands of [77+, AT], then why not the very first to push the hands of [QQ+]

 

[Serjo600]

When I was played this sng the first moove what I did it wait one monster hand and double up, after I play my standard tag game