mass multi tabling for mtt

[Dubstep]

Should volume be the most important factor when grinding mtt? Should I always be pushing myself to grind more tables? Adding in more tables will lower your overall roi but because mtt has such a high roi it might not matter. for example you can play 1 table mtt with a 100% roi but then if you add in 20 tables your roi drops down to 30%. obviously it much more profitable doing the second option. But im just wondering how much importance should I place on pushing volume? should that be the number 1 priority for an mtt grinder?.:stupid:

 

[Arjonius]

It seems self-evident that volume is part of grinding. If you just consider the $, then look for the combo of level and # of tables that yields the highest $ per hour win rate.

You may, however, want to consider other factors. For instance, if you enjoy playing say 12-15 tables at a time much less than say 3-4, how much more do you have to win per hour for playing the additional tables to become subjectively worth it.

 

[WiZZiM]

It seems self-evident that volume is part of grinding. If you just consider the $, then look for the combo of level and # of tables that yields the highest $ per hour win rate.

You may, however, want to consider other factors. For instance, if you enjoy playing say 12-15 tables at a time much less than say 3-4, how much more do you have to win per hour for playing the additional tables to become subjectively worth it.

+1

the combo, or I call it "balance" of winning money per volume is the key. It can be easy to just play a ton of tables poorly, but at the end of the day you throw so many buyins away. You want to play an amount of tables that you can still make clear decisions. it might be 15 for you and 5 for others.

Keep in mind it's a marathon not a sprint, so playing 150 tournaments in one day but only playing 250 in a week is not as good as spreading those 250 over more evenly in the week. You will play your A game for longer periods and won't get tired as much. Just be honest with yourself and look at yourself objectively and you will find the right balance/conclusions.

 

[bondgaurav21]

+1

the combo, or I call it "balance" of winning money per volume is the key. It can be easy to just play a ton of tables poorly, but at the end of the day you throw so many buyins away. You want to play an amount of tables that you can still make clear decisions. it might be 15 for you and 5 for others.

Keep in mind it's a marathon not a sprint, so playing 150 tournaments in one day but only playing 250 in a week is not as good as spreading those 250 over more evenly in the week. You will play your A game for longer periods and won't get tired as much. Just be honest with yourself and look at yourself objectively and you will find the right balance/conclusions.

nice suggestion...

 

[Dubstep]

So have use actually found your perfect number of tables? how would I do that for mtt?

 

[JPoling]

Everyone has different mental on how many tables they can play comfortably. Like me, sadly 2 is the most I can play efficiently, sometimes 3. I try to play 4 at a time and i just cant get it. This also could be do to my set up, since I am on laptop and no mouse. Yet, I still just feel like I cant keep up. I also like to keep up with table dynamics but I am slowly trying to push my way to be able to multi-table atleast 4 at a time.

 

[Dubstep]

Wow jpolling that is bad. I can play a 40 table burst ive done it 3 times twice I made profit and the 3rd I lost a lot and pretty sure wiped out the overall profits lol but still. it feels awesome it kinda feels like meditating in a way I know that's sounds really weird but you have to literally clear your mind of all thoughts and distractions similar to meditating.Anyway I was 24 tabling 1c2c when I was 18 and started poker when I was 17 and I was losing money obviously. But I think it was still beneficial to my game. in terms of learning how to be a more efficient grinder. of course you don't have mass multi table to win good money. but you defiantly have to at micro and low stakes if you wana see anything decent. But 4 tables im thinking you have not played very much poker at all or you are playing way to many hands which also could be because of the first point lol. And I am also on a laptop with no mouse, but usually when im reaching about 20+ tables I will plug in a 5$ mouse in to the usb port and use that.. but im pretty sure I can 4 table on a mobile lol so I don't think that's your problem also depends if you play cash game/sng/mtt or 6 max. I think 6-8 tabling 6 max cash games I felt comftable with like a year ago. But if you play 180 mans and mtts at micro or low stakes I think this is defiantly big a problem for you.

 

[Dubstep]

well its not a problem if you don't care about maximizing your hourly $... even if its -ev to try play 10 tables it could possibly be +ev for the future. I also read on a book that when you multi table it can be a good way to uncover some leeks or something like that Im not sure need to read the book again.

 

[WiZZiM]

depends on what your long term goals are. Do you want to move up to higher stakes? if so, your going to have to think about decisions more and perfect things as your leaks will be uncovered a lot more.

If your goal is to stay in micros/lower stakes, then a more volume orientated mindset is the way to go. Obviously when you play more tables you have less time for decisions, so playing a simplistic game is necessary. There is nothing wrong with it overall as the volume you play makes up for the spots that you miss due to not having as much time.

Finding the optimal number of tables is really just a feel thing. I'm sure you feel comfortable playing 40 tables, but at the end of the day, you are going to be missing a lot of spots, playing really tight throughout, which is fine.

It's a bit trickier when you play MTT, the games go off when they are scheduled, some days you may just bust a heap quickly. So at times you will have 15-20 going, and ohters only a handful. The key for me is that when you have a deepish run going, start to knock back the amount of tables you are loading, this helps you put more energy into the one you have a good shot in.

Long story short, do what you are comfortable with. You have played enough games now that you kind of know the areas you are most comfortable (assuming 12-20 for you). As for finding out how profitble you are in MTT, it's a tough one as the games differ so much, there is so much variance. I honestly wouldn't bother with it and just look at yourself and your game objectively to find the right answer for you. You can also look over tournaments played whilst 20+ tabling to see glaring missed spots or mistakes, and then check it when you play only 10 to see if you make similar errors or not.

 

[RamdeeBen]

Personally I really struggle to play 1 MTT table at a time even if it increases my ROI%. I tend to find the less tables I play, the more "creative" and stupid I become with my plays, or the more I lose focus and do something else so it's effecting my ROI% anyway.

My most comfortable and preferred amount is between 10-12 tables. I seem more focused overall, besides which playing less tables variance would last forever.

 

[Dubstep]

No I don't feel comftable playing 40 tables that's me pushing it to the max. Yesterday I play 20 tables and on two of them I made final two tables. one was a $5.40 knockout and the other was 5$ hyper. both were about 1.2k-1.5k first place I think im not sure but pretty big cash and both times I busted final 15-18 and won like a shitty 30-40$ on just regular old standard shoves. So after busting in these two tournaments like this right after each other on like standard flips. it just seems to me volume is such an important factor when grinding mtt. Like seems like when it comes to mtt its all about quantity over quality. And ive been reading a book and im pretty sure there is like a multitabling myth about playing a simplistic game when multi tabling like its not true just because your playing 25 tables your decisions are just plain abc moves and would not be profitable. Its something about training yourself to process all the necassery information faster. so just because someone is playing 25 tables doesn't mean there skill is just stripped down to the basics. it probly would for someone who is a begineer at that number of tables but for someone who has trained themselves they still could maintain a high quality of poker.. But im not sure, this information is a little blury need to read the book again lol but something like that. But for sum reason I feel when it comes to mtt you should forget about playing quality and go for volume.

 

[Dubstep]

Also I think multi tabling can help with some leaks like. I feel I need a situation to repeat itself within a short period of time before I realise. and when im multi tabling I can be like hey that's like the 5th time that's happened in 3 days maybe I need to change something there. but if you where only one tabling those 5 mistakes could be spread out over a period of time like 1 month and not even realise that its a leak of yours. I kinda feel like its a video game and the more tables you can play the more=xp you can rack up.. well i know this is certainly true when it comes to live vs online. online players are more skilled than the live game players on average because of the more hands they play online per hour compared to live. so im wondering how much that holds true between a 10 tabler and 20 tabler?

 

[WiZZiM]

Personally I really struggle to play 1 MTT table at a time even if it increases my ROI%. I tend to find the less tables I play, the more "creative" and stupid I become with my plays, or the more I lose focus and do something else so it's effecting my ROI% anyway.

My most comfortable and preferred amount is between 10-12 tables. I seem more focused overall, besides which playing less tables variance would last forever.

haha, yes i'm exactly the same way. However since i'm predominately a SNG nit, i just don't have the exp to just play 12 tables straight away, i know i could, but i may as well just light a pile of money on fire.

 

[Dubstep]

yea funny thing is i cant manage 12 6 max sngs like wizzim can.. its because he already has a lot of knowledge on how to play 6 max hypers and bubble play and short handed. where as if i played that many sng i would be overwhelmed with tough decisions i would have hardly any clue in.

 

[WiZZiM]

No I don't feel comftable playing 40 tables that's me pushing it to the max. Yesterday I play 20 tables and on two of them I made final two tables. one was a $5.40 knockout and the other was 5$ hyper. both were about 1.2k-1.5k first place I think im not sure but pretty big cash and both times I busted final 15-18 and won like a shitty 30-40$ on just regular old standard shoves. So after busting in these two tournaments like this right after each other on like standard flips. it just seems to me volume is such an important factor when grinding mtt. Like seems like when it comes to mtt its all about quantity over quality. And ive been reading a book and im pretty sure there is like a multitabling myth about playing a simplistic game when multi tabling like its not true just because your playing 25 tables your decisions are just plain abc moves and would not be profitable. Its something about training yourself to process all the necassery information faster. so just because someone is playing 25 tables doesn't mean there skill is just stripped down to the basics. it probly would for someone who is a begineer at that number of tables but for someone who has trained themselves they still could maintain a high quality of poker.. But im not sure, this information is a little blury need to read the book again lol but something like that. But for sum reason I feel when it comes to mtt you should forget about playing quality and go for volume.

If that's the way you view it then go for it, no need to post the question in the first place . Yes it's somewhat true that you can play 25 tables well, however the players that do that have worked their way up to it, and study the shit out of spots so that there are no grey areas in their game. I know SNG players who play 30-40 tables at once, even buyins over $100 average. They didn't get there by starting out playing that many, they played 8 tables, then 10-12 etc adding a few more tables as they got more experience. But overall, you have to play a more simplistic game, theres nothing wrong with it, however saying you can pay as much attention as playing 25 games compared to 12 games is silly.

At the end of the day it's up to you, you have to be able to critique yourself and come up with the right answer for your sitauation. I think you have come up with it when you are focusing on quantity over quantity. I think it's a fine way to go, but obviously they are pros and cons to it which i'm sure you know by now. Overall though, more quantity is going to be better than high skill with no quantity .

 

[Dubstep]

wizzim go on fb

 

[Dubstep]

Yes but there is a reason to ask this question because im wondering. how much emphasis i should put on multi tabling for mtts. it might be different for sng because of the lower roi but im just trying to get a gauge of what the type of volume is expected to be good in mtt. like for example when i get a big win on mtt and move up stakes i kinda play less volume and then when then when i start falling down again i push the volume. like its hard to say play as many as your comftable with. because just because your comftable with 10 tables doesn't mean that is the most $ per hour. you might be negative roi at 20 tables. but it could still be worth doing because eventually you could be mult tabling 20 tables profitably and be making a lot more money. or the other side of it is you are already capable of playing 20 tables and are unaware that pushing yourself to play 30 you would be losing $ per hour. Like how do you know what your totally capable of and when you are over stepping the line into impossibility? Or in other words what is the most profitable number of tables to play mtt in general. doesn't matter if your a pro or a newbie.

 

[Dubstep]

Some reason i have a feeling there are no big mtt grinders here who have gone through such an experience

 

[Dubstep]

Like what should i be striving for 30 tables?

 

[Dubstep]

Like i might not be comftable now at 30 but i can get there. but also i could strive for 30 and get there and its just not profitable.

 

[Dubstep]

Like i might not be comftable now at 30 but i can get there. but also i could strive for 30 and get there and its just not profitable bcus its simply impossible for anyone to maintain a positive roi for example.

 

[pokrjoker]

There are a few of us here who hav done this and I tell you from experience. With this you must be careful depending on what you are playing ie Micros to low mids or higher. It took me about 3 years and I did very well grinding 6-12 tables $55 and under before I sold my online action. I made 15k a year playing part time with a real job that paid about the same. Then I went full time, soldmy action and upped my volume because that's what my backers said I needed to do. all the big names did it. I dropped 10's of thousands of dollars, almost cost me my family and lost all enjoyment from a game I'm pretty good at. So be careful. IMO I think its a bad idea to give up optimal play. The swings are huge and tough to play through 2-3 months

Imo to mass multi table mtts is silly. most guys playing 30+ tables are playing 99% sngs

 

[pokrjoker]

Most of them are gring out break even roi even negative for rake back and bonus's. Its just not feasible to maintain a good roi mass tabling mtts

 

[Dubstep]

You are totally wrong pokrjoker. there has to be a certain number.

 

[Dubstep]

weather its 2 tables or 30.