Live razz tournament - feedback?

OzExorcist

OzExorcist

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Be interested to get some feedback on this one, apologies if it rambles a little:

Last week I played razz live for the first time - I've dabbled a little in it online, enjoyed it and figured I'd give it a bash live. It was an event in the state championships here, $230 buy-in, there ended up being 37 players of varying standards and experience in the game (some claimed it was their favourite/best stud game, others claimed they'd never played it before)

Anywho, my strategy going into the tournament was going to be to keep things fairly tight, wait for the good hands (6-low starters, for preference), pay attention to the texture of the table's door cards and try to push people out of pots where I saw them bricking out. The structure seemed like I wouldn't have to rush things ($4000 starting chips, first level limits of $15-$30, 30 minute levels)

Problem was the waiting for good hands part - in short, I didn't really get any. I ended up going out towards the end of the seventh level, in 30th place out of 37, having won maybe three pots the entire time and receiving a lot more KQJ-type starting hands than I care to remember.

So my question is, is there anything much you can do when the cards come like this, or do you just have to shrug and say "that's poker"?

The only thing I can think that I could've done differently is to have taken a punt on a few more marginal hands like 749 or something, despite the better door cards others may have been showing
 
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CM93

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yea the card dead is just poker but I play razz all the time and u have 2 play your oppent more than your cards.u might have a AK with the 5 showing but if every body has higher than a 9 showing all most everyone will fold.but I geuss if it was on of your first few times playing than u did ok.
 
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Dashir

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Isn't 6-low starters overly tight? You can least add A2x, A3x and 23x with a higher card as long as it's hidden. That way if they catch higher cards or a pair you can push a bit and you still have a good draw.
 
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bulletsaa123

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i usually play 8 high or better to start, but ill play a2x pretty much all the time, unless the "x" is showing. on a side note, do any of you know any sites that have good razz games or tourneys?
 
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CM93

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pokers starts is haveing a bigrazz turyn in a mounth i thik its like 215 buyin 100k garunte satlites start as low as $8.80 i think.
 
The PoolBoy

The PoolBoy

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three under six is way too tight! take some risks earlier to looen up yer image then reighn it in when blinds go up! also position, position and position are very important Its not what ya start with its how you imangine the other players think what you might have
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

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Cool, thanks for the feedback y'all :)

I did have a bash at playing a few hands like AK2 in the hope of either catching good or the other player catching bad, most of the time they improved and I bricked out though.

I'll have a bash at three cards 8 or under next time and see how it goes - for the most part, when I was getting hands like that there were just too many 2-3-4 door cards showing to make me think I'd have a chance, but if I combine a wider starting hand range with just a bit more luck next time, hopefully it'll work out
 
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memexyz

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Well, I can tell you somethings wrong if you started with 4k chips and that blind structure if you only won 3 pots the whole game..
Ya, I would say 6 and under is a bit tight, even for a tournament. YOu do want to play tighter in a tournament than a cash game obviously, and to some extent it ca be equated to a holdem tournament where you want to avoid "coinflips". But you also can't assume everytime someone has a lower card they have the nuts. I mean if u have 238, u look around and an ace raises, another ace reraises and a 3 calls, ya, you obviously dont have the best hand ina spot like that. But if u have that same 238, esp. if the 8 isnt showing, and u look around and see a 2,3 fold, and only 2-3 more low cards, bet that. You have a good hand, if not the best hand. An important thing in razz is not just your hand, but if the cards that make your hand are still "live" If you have a23, and the other people have a 4,5,4,5,6,7 and a 7 showing, u actually have a pretty weak hand, even though in normal circumstances it's a strong one, just because all the cards you need to make your hand are already in play. Now, that's a pretty extreme example there, EVERY single card to make your hand wont usually be gone lol, but I'm just trying to make a point. it's especially important in tournies.

Now the other thing, and this takes practice, is playing your opponent. A lot of people think razz is just a luck based game, and in part that's true. if the guy has a 2345 board, and u have KKJJa24, you can't just go all in and bluff him out like you could in a game like holdem. Razz is a high variance game, and sometimes, tournaments in particular, you just can't make a hand. But one thing you can do, is to realize who plays poorly and who doesn't. If you get 3 decent cards, say an a47, and u bet, and a guy with a 5 raises. the logical assumption is he wouldn't raise unless he had a better hand than your 3 to a 7, but say this guy is playing every hand, or a lot of hands, and raising marginal hands a lot, well in that spot, chances are you have the best hand, or at the very worst a very close hand.
So you just need to pay attention to the kinds of hands ppl are playing, and also how they play them. Say in that spot I know it's a good player, well I probably wont reraise them, for 2 reasons: 1, he actually could have a better hand, in fact likely does. 2: he's not going to play poorly post 3rd. What I mean by that is, say you just call his raise, and hit an ace, he hits a 9. then u hit a 6, he hits an 8. well a good player probably wont call in that spot. a bad player will, especially for a raise, since he thinks he has "pot odds" even though it's a misapplication of it.
so in general, the worse I feel someone plays, the worse a starting hand I'll play. Not bad hands, but marginal hands like 92a vs an 8 showing, because I know if i hit good on 4th he's going to call, so you're getting great implied odds off a guy like this, not to mention against a guy who plays too many hands you may have the best hand anyway.
so anyway, that's all just my opinion, what's worked for me, you're welcomee to take it or leave it, hope it helps :)
 
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silverslugger33

silverslugger33

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There isn't a ton that you can do. Eventually, once you get short you have to try to bluff and at least get a few bring-ins worth of chips. If you get something like (KK)2, then try to play it aggressively, even though you know you don't have the best hand. If your board looks threatening and you've been playing tight, you should be able to push some people off of hands.
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

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18 month old post.

But thanks for the opinions guys. My razz game has evolved a fair bit since this happened, though I still remember tournament as containing a spectacularly awful run of cards :p
 
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