Late Tournament Play

[xOneCoolHandx]

Hi All,

Just wanted to get a discussion going about play in the late stages of a tourney, particularly when things tighten up as the money bubble approaches. I have read and seen a whole spectrum of styles. Personally, I like to get really aggressive at this point and attack as often as I can (not with pushing every single pot, those people annoy me and I love to "catch" them). I do this almost irregardless of my stack size (unless I am VERY short-stacked, then I will play the waiting game to a certain extent). My theory is that this is a critical time to build your stack to position yourself for a deep run but, there is also the danger of crippling yourself or getting knocked out before the bubble, and you didn't come all the way to NOT make the money. I don't want to give the wrong impression, I don't just go crazy during this stage. My strategy is to normally play fairly tight for the first two levels while people are going crazy, then open up and play pretty tight aggressive gearing up to loose aggressive and back and forth until the late middle stages, then gearing back down to play fairly tight aggressive (and building that table image) until everyone else starts tightening up and then going into attack mode while still being mindful of other players tendencies and taking into account table position, stack sizes and other factors, and I try not to get into major confrontations unless I have a monster. That's just my style and

What I see a lot of time is that big stacks seem to shut down until the money bubble (I LOVE to see people go inactive waiting for the bubble to burst) is popped, and small stacks pushing more often than they should be (even at my big blind when they should know that I am a BB defender), I see medium stacks doing all sorts of things. I see a lot of people playing very differently than their typical playing style. So, my question is what are your playing styles and game theory in this stage of a tournament and why?

 

[Andrew Popov]

Any strategy depends on the composition of the players at the table. Your option implies quite passive and cautious players. If at the table will sit a couple of maniacs - you can not play as written in his post. A good strategy should be flexible, be able to win different players.

 

[infonazar]

It all depends on my opponents, but I usually rarely play aggressively. I have one effective strategy. I try patiently to wait for good cards and always use my position at the table.

 

[Goldog]

While you seem to have a pretty good plan it seems you haven’t mentioned the rising blinds. This is the reality which stimulates action.

It gets difficult to maneuver without a large number of BBs. You need to average a little more than one pot per round to keep up.

Balance of this and your image/style is key. Some depends on your stack size, your need to cash vs your desire to win. Obviously you have to make the money in order to come in first. But bubble play depends a lot on survival (preserving) vs aggressive chip building. Getting a couple times the buy in may matter more to some than others. To someone else a top finish and many multiples of the buy in is worth the risk of going out just missing the money.

I personally try for the top finish most of the time. If I need to get a small cash it means I played too high a buy in.

 

[RocwX]

I think a good way to go is increasing the frequency you play as the first aggressor preflop, but keep using the standard small raise (depending on the blind levels, the min raise is often enough). In the late stage of the tournament it's way easier to steal blinds and you'll hardly see any 3-bets. Raising preflop becomes a very profitable strategy. That depends, of course, on the players you have on your table.

If you end up getting called to see a flop, play small ball and try not to lose a ton of chips.

 

[roger perkins]

Any strategy depends on the composition of the players at the table. Your option implies quite passive and cautious players. If at the table will sit a couple of maniacs - you can not play as written in his post. A good strategy should be flexible, be able to win different players.

GREAT ADVICE the tables make up should always dictate your style of play. more aggressive against the nits and cautious against the aggressive players.

 

[gwj63]

I wish I was late in enough to have an honest plan of attack that got me there but.....
generally I last longer the tighter I play throughout the game, so I'm gonna go with this....
late in a tournament near the bubble I pick my spots to be the aggressor but I just play tight....
it works but not always

 

[kowrip]

Like anything else, this depends on a lot of factors. I just recently min cashed in a $100 buy-in at a casino. They paid $246 for 10th - 16th place. I honestly didn't change my play much as we got to the bubble. Coming out $146 ahead wasn't enough for me to become a rock. My stack was fairly short and I needed to keep shoving decent hands. Now, had it been a bigger buy-in and/or a higher relative min-cash, I might have backed off to try to get ITM. I didn't notice any major changes in game play at my table, but I suspect in bigger multi-day tournaments, it would have been different.

 

[tauri103]

the majority of the time I adopt the same strategy as you because it allows you to better manage the effect of variance on my game. It happens that I decide to play more aggressive at the beginning and middle of an MTT when the variance is on my side and that I manage to touch a lot of cards. it is a style of game much more funny but it is the one that I like the most. at the end of tounois I always prefer to tighten my game knowing that luck counts for 60% at the end of the game.

 

[Jammen]

Any strategy depends on the composition of the players at the table. Your option implies quite passive and cautious players. If at the table will sit a couple of maniacs - you can not play as written in his post. A good strategy should be flexible, be able to win different players.

I have to say that I would love to have the stake and the right table composition to be table captain at this point in a tourney because you are so right. You can totally build your stake a ton if you get lucky enough to be able to effectively play this strategy at that point. I like the thought process though and I sure that is what you are implying is that given the right stack size and tournament situation does everyone else use this strategy. the answer would be yes from most I think.

 

[AJantwan]

While I can relate to playing conservative on the bubble so that you can get in the money... I think the long-term perspective is more accurate for tournament poker. Your goal is to make as much money as you can. Period. If a move is positive EV, then it is. Will it put you at risk of busting before you make money? Yes. But it's still positive EV, and poker is a game about the long run. In the long run, if you maximize your +EV moves, that's how you make the most money. Players shouldn't tighten up, IMO.

I will add one caveat. And this probably goes against my +EV argument (though, I don't know, maybe ICM would bear me out). If I'm, say, 2nd or 3rd in chips with a 100BB stack, and one guy has a 1BB stack, I'm not as likely to get involved in a big hand where I could bust.

But in general, don't tighten up. Your job is to maximize money, not just limp into the money.

And of course, attack those who do tighten up!

 

[xOneCoolHandx]

Any strategy depends on the composition of the players at the table. Your option implies quite passive and cautious players. If at the table will sit a couple of maniacs - you can not play as written in his post. A good strategy should be flexible, be able to win different players.

I totally agree with you. That was not an option, if you read the whole post then you would have read that I mentioned that I adjust based on what the players around me are doing and the option you refer to was just an observation based on what I typically see. I am always flexible with my strategy because, as stated, my goal is always to win. You can't accomplish that goal without being adaptable.

 

[Ranish625]

Hi All,

Just wanted to get a discussion going about play in the late stages of a tourney, particularly when things tighten up as the money bubble approaches. I have read and seen a whole spectrum of styles. Personally, I like to get really aggressive at this point and attack as often as I can (not with pushing every single pot, those people annoy me and I love to "catch" them). I do this almost irregardless of my stack size (unless I am VERY short-stacked, then I will play the waiting game to a certain extent). My theory is that this is a critical time to build your stack to position yourself for a deep run but, there is also the danger of crippling yourself or getting knocked out before the bubble, and you didn't come all the way to NOT make the money. I don't want to give the wrong impression, I don't just go crazy during this stage. My strategy is to normally play fairly tight for the first two levels while people are going crazy, then open up and play pretty tight aggressive gearing up to loose aggressive and back and forth until the late middle stages, then gearing back down to play fairly tight aggressive (and building that table image) until everyone else starts tightening up and then going into attack mode while still being mindful of other players tendencies and taking into account table position, stack sizes and other factors, and I try not to get into major confrontations unless I have a monster. That's just my style and

What I see a lot of time is that big stacks seem to shut down until the money bubble (I LOVE to see people go inactive waiting for the bubble to burst) is popped, and small stacks pushing more often than they should be (even at my big blind when they should know that I am a BB defender), I see medium stacks doing all sorts of things. I see a lot of people playing very differently than their typical playing style. So, my question is what are your playing styles and game theory in this stage of a tournament and why?

Only patience, at this stage of the game I start to play cautiously, waiting patiently good hands.

 

[Andrew Popov]

I totally agree with you. That was not an option, if you read the whole post then you would have read that I mentioned that I adjust based on what the players around me are doing and the option you refer to was just an observation based on what I typically see. I am always flexible with my strategy because, as stated, my goal is always to win. You can't accomplish that goal without being adaptable.

Indeed, adaptation and ability to adapt are good not only in nature, but also in the wild world of online poker. :fight:

 

[xOneCoolHandx]

While you seem to have a pretty good plan it seems you haven’t mentioned the rising blinds. This is the reality which stimulates action.

It gets difficult to maneuver without a large number of BBs. You need to average a little more than one pot per round to keep up.

Balance of this and your image/style is key. Some depends on your stack size, your need to cash vs your desire to win. Obviously you have to make the money in order to come in first. But bubble play depends a lot on survival (preserving) vs aggressive chip building. Getting a couple times the buy in may matter more to some than others. To someone else a top finish and many multiples of the buy in is worth the risk of going out just missing the money.

I personally try for the top finish most of the time. If I need to get a small cash it means I played too high a buy in.

I agree completely, fortunately, it is rare that I get to these late stages without at least an above average stack, so I do not have to play push and pray very often (although the last couple of times I have been crippled down to 4 or 5 BB's, I have been fortunate enough to fight my way back). I think table image is key in these situations but I also feel that people change their styles and tighten up the closer to the bubble that you come. I think it is exactly for the reasons you mention, a lot of people are too worried about getting either crippled or eliminated at this stage, that they fold a lot of playable hands. Of course, there are other vultures out there circling this prey (or sharks, or whatever you want to call them...me..)...that is why I spend time going into this stage to make myself look like a tight player, so that the other (observant) players will just assume that I am catching some good cards. When new players come in, they see that everyone folds when I raise, and they likely follow suit.

I also try to keep myself from spending too much on a single buy-in. I just made a post earlier in the week about bankroll management...and I am trying to stick with it. :fight:

 

[xOneCoolHandx]

Indeed, adaptation and ability to adapt are good not only in nature, but also in the wild world of online poker. :fight:

LMBO..wild world indeed. Online poker is kind of it's own beast, isn't it.

 

[maudoallin]

All u have to do its know ur oponnent and play in right position !

 

[Andrew Popov]

LMBO..wild world indeed. Online poker is kind of it's own beast, isn't it.

Not the beast itself - rather it is a jungle, in which there are many different types of animals, carnivores and herbivores.Everyone who starts a game is to become one of them.

 

[dreamwalker3]

in my opinion you should never see how many people are....just play your best..remember the wnd goal..be first in mtt..if you notice your oppoenents play tight
.play loose nut be extremely cautios