Impossible to beat rungood/playgood

N

Nutcracker69

Visionary
Joined
Nov 10, 2015
Total posts
692
Am I the only one that regularly absolutely dominates early rounds (say, until last 5 tables) of tourneys?

I'm bringing out all the tricks:
Shoving ai on flop with middle pair and just decent kicker and getting a call with nothing and taking it down.

Flatting middle pair with backdoor outs (including the flush) on a min flop bet. Raising good size bet on turn when flush draw comes and then snap calling all in on the river when flush comes through. (Fish had k3 with 3 being the bottom pair and K was irrelevant)

Flatting both initial min open on flop in worst position (SB) with 68 and then flatting bet on flop when 557 comes. Turn I believe is a King and brings the 6c flush draws so I peel another off. When the river comes I shove all in, which is really really stupid of a move. I'm giving him like what feels like 10:1 on a call, but it is for his tournament life. The river was a King. So I could have plenty here that beats him. If HE missed a draw, even A2 knocks him out. I think it is fairly obvious that I'm not shoving for value or to get a call, but maybe it got him to overthink because he eventually mucked. While my 8 did technically play on the board, I seriously doubt I was best. Happy to virtually rake in the virtual chips.

TO BE CLEAR: I don't think these are examples of me being good as much as it is my opponents being bad. After folding all but one hand posting this I've fallen to 3rd place, but I'm not overally concerned.
 
N

Nutcracker69

Visionary
Joined
Nov 10, 2015
Total posts
692
why have I not learned yet that my posts on here are bad karma?

calling all in the flop twice with a pair vs overcards cost me a 32k pot followed by a 26k pot. Then making a correct fold with my smaller stack and giving up a big winner.
 
N

Nutcracker69

Visionary
Joined
Nov 10, 2015
Total posts
692
888 ai on the turn 3 ways knocked out in 68th place. I'm awesome.
 
N

Nutcracker69

Visionary
Joined
Nov 10, 2015
Total posts
692
Why I am surprised by this occurrence I'm going to share when in the same level I got a straight flush and was paid off by opponents with no flush and then after raising PF, I check/call min bets multi-way all the way down and my ace rag wins a 3 way showdown on a str8, flush and str8 flush board?

So then I raise PF with JJ, get a caller and then a raise, to which I SHOVE and get two calls. The first was bad enough, but he called first and had an over K and under 10 to work with. The second, IMEO, makes a TERRIBLE overcall for all his/her chips with qjo. Since they had the other player covered, they take down the whole pot and have twice as many chips as me.

No worries, I took it as good spot to GIIG vs at least the smaller stack when I checked my 101010 on 10q8 2 clubs board. Well, got the small stack to my left to shove (which I wanted) but then the other one shoves? Okay, time to gamble. Up against the short stack who I'm pretty sure was drawing dead and bigger stack with 99c. Club on the turn meant flush outs to go with gutshot str8 draw. Luckily no dice for anyone else and now I don't feel so bad getting crushed down to 4k sitting with 15k now. ;)
 
Brandlad

Brandlad

Visionary
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
Total posts
966
U r just playing against Rookie. Once u would find yourself amongst pros u would easily know where u stand. LOL
 
N

Nutcracker69

Visionary
Joined
Nov 10, 2015
Total posts
692
U r just playing against Rookie. Once u would find yourself amongst pros u would easily know where u stand. LOL

I have played against the pros for many years, and I much prefer it. While they're capable of deciding they want to test and call on the river, many other times, they will allow you to bluff IF the STORY makes SENSE.

Trying that against these idiot novices and they don't pay attention to board texture, opposing hand possibilities, bet sizing, etc. etc. that a seasoned pro knows limits your range to either really strong or really weak and is, therefore, a tough decision. No, they snap off a call very CLEARLY because they have a pair of ANY kind and to them that is good enough. It's mind boggling and confuses the hell out of me, but I've been dealing with it since November. The first time it happens I don't expect it because I have no history to go off of. Later I use it to my advantage. And ALSO, like I said, I'm not COMPLAINING that they do this AT ALL, because, in fact, it usually means big wins for me.
 
quick

quick

Legend
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Total posts
1,312
Awards
1
Tournaments in general are filled with dodging all kinds of junk. I definitely feel there's nights and even entire weeks where I miss every flop, get sucked out on, lose every going flip, etc. But there's always hope. Last night I ran deep into two MTTs at the same time, I was flopping Royal Flushes, rivering miracle cards, having KK hold up against 3 or 4 all in stacks, shoving with 10BB hands like 22 on button and picking up good antes/blinds, just running like god. And in that session I was also in a cash game and also running like god.

To your point, I often easily do well early in MTTs but chips slip away and alls it takes is a few coin flips to ruin having a massive stack even IF you're playing great and making good moves. Case in point, last night I had a nice start, floundered a bit, then ran like god just before late reg closed, became tourney leader for a while. 3 hands a few spots outside final table I reshoved AK off, other two showed AK off and A5o, the A5o short stack shover ended up winning on flop, next hand a tiny stack shoved and I had JQs, they happened to have QQ, i missed a turned flush draw. Few hands later I had KQs under 10 BB, I shove, guy has some crappy hand they get a pair, I blank I'm out. SO I went from chip leader to out of the tourney within maybe 20 hands after taking the lead and none of these spots felt like really bad moves. This was a turbo so there were a lot more shoving spots and lots of all in action , average stack was under 10BB before late reg ended.

I've found slowing it down, observing the table (this was online), taking notes, and picking spots really well helps me run deep. You can't be afraid to shove and actually i've begun shoving a little more before I get below 10BB esp in late position. It's a lot more intimidating to other players to see someone with like 15-20 BB shoving then someone with 4BB but some don't pay attention anyways.

It's hard to beat others who are running good or on heaters but you just have to get chips in when you have a decent hand and let the cards fall as they will. That JQs example earlier , the guy had 4BB he could have had junk but he was running good and had QQ and it paid off. It goes both ways, when you feel you're running good, embrace it, pay attention , maximize that.
 
naitutreaba

naitutreaba

Rock Star
Joined
Jan 2, 2016
Total posts
266
you are not the onlyone and you will not be...is poker mate...have patient!
 
Daenus

Daenus

Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 5, 2015
Total posts
25
If that 4bb short stack was playing real tight then its obvious he was waiting for a hand to shove, otherwise if he was shoving 2 every 3 hands then sure hes got crap. Any way playin vs rookies feel like theres a lot of maniacs everywhere, like 0,10 SNG 360players. Is more gamble than poker, but there is a strategy to win anyway, like Nutcracker says.
 
N

Nutcracker69

Visionary
Joined
Nov 10, 2015
Total posts
692
finally thought I broke through for (another) freeroll win late last night / this morning. I was cruising in 1st until I made the most common of my leak/mistakes. I was just trying to bully the other stacks into oblivion, and initially only had one big stack at my table to push back. Now I had another and they were both top 3 with me. Everyone else (20 to go) had significantly less. I open light with j8o and next to me shoves all in, next to him (big stack) flat calls and it is back to me. I am well aware that I'm likely 3rd best here. But I was getting great odds to see a flop and try and get lucky. When it came 8 high with possible straight draws out there I snap shoved what was likely equivalent to almost 2x pot, him having that much which was less than 50% of my stack. He snap calls and flips over kk. Didn't improve and the guy who should have won the hand did. Interestingly enough, the initial shover had ace rag and it fell on either the turn or river so we tripled him up and then I practically doubled up the other guy putting him in 1st and me down to 3rd. I AM AWARE I MADE A MAJOR MISTAKE, I don't need that analyzed.

But then I worked my way back up to 2nd and was contending for 1st. The guy in 1st was a bigger jag about it than I was. I could make a simple 2.2xBB open and he would snap shove all in. It was really annoying because I saw no value in calling him without an absolute monster. THEN, we get into a hand where I must have been in the blinds and if there were any opens they were small because I was playing 2ko. Flop comes 266r. I bet 2/3rd pot. Dude folds and he SNAP SHOVES AGAIN. I am completely fed up with his desire to not play "real poker" at this point. I'm in 2nd (or 3rd at worst) so up against the only person who can knock me out with 12-13 to go (10 paid). I take full time and run through it in my head. Sure, he could have me crushed with A2, any 6 or any pocket pair. But I rule most of that out and decide he is likely going crazy with AT BEST a weaker deuce. I give him no credit for anything better than 2q and so I call. Obviously a little excited to see I'm right with the 2q because although we'll chop almost 1/4th of the time, he is only 12% to win. But this is WPN, where 12% dreams become reality. He spikes the q winner on the river, I slam my computer shut and slam it onto the bed. I would have preferred getting knocked out in the first level and getting decent sleep than bubbling with so many chips.

I was going to post this for analysis elsewhere but it is a continuation of the rungood I was experiencing. Please critique the call if you're in my spot and you're CONVINCED that you're 65% to win.

I took all day today off from poker. I'm starting to think that even if I'm feeling so far ahead like 80/20, I may start folding my hands and not allowing my opponents to suck out for such big wins.

I would also like feedback on that idea. Thanks.
 
Poker Orifice

Poker Orifice

Legend
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Total posts
22,470
Awards
6
f I AM AWARE I MADE A MAJOR MISTAKE, I don't need that analyzed.
I wouldn't be so sure about that.

I take full time and run through it in my head. Sure, he could have me crushed with A2, any 6 or any pocket pair. But I rule most of that out and decide he is likely going crazy with AT BEST a weaker deuce. I give him no credit for anything better than 2q and so I call.

LoL love how you've chosen to put your opponent on a narrow range that you are conveniently ahead of. I mean why not just put him on whatever you figure will fit your story after the fact?

But this is WPN, where 12% dreams become reality.

Oh oh. Here we go with the rigtard stuff again.

Please critique the call if you're in my spot and you're CONVINCED that you're 65% to win.
"IF" you knew you were 65% to win (no way you're going to know this here... you've just conveniently decided it. If he told you his hand, it'd be an ICM dependant situation, depending upon the payout structure and sizes of other chipstacks.
I took all day today off from poker. I'm starting to think that even if I'm feeling so far ahead like 80/20, I may start folding my hands and not allowing my opponents to suck out for such big wins.
Did you use your time off to learn how to play?
I would also like feedback on that idea. Thanks.


My feedback on that idea is to go and have your meds. adjusted.
 
XChin

XChin

Rising Star
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Total posts
20
I can get to the later stages of tournaments with no problem but I can't finish tourneys. Key thing for me is just staying patient and waiting for that hand and then go from there.
 
Brandlad

Brandlad

Visionary
Joined
Oct 5, 2015
Total posts
966
See if by finishing tourney u mean to be 1st then it depends on three factors. Surviving. Luck and Probability. Surviving means u have to keep ur chipstack safe and around 20BBs till final 9. Luck means (which plays 70% role in mtts, where players involvement r around 5000 or more) to survive urself against River magic or something like lower full house against higher one. Probability means 5000 players for 1st place so just use math and see what u get.
I value my poker game valuation like-- If I am among top 100, I am good. If among 50 then better and if in top 9 then best.
Hope I am right.
 
N

Nutcracker69

Visionary
Joined
Nov 10, 2015
Total posts
692
My feedback on that idea is to go and have your meds. adjusted.

I've asked nicely. I want someone to SERIOUSLY show me how to block this guy because I DO NOT want to see another post of his EVER AGAIN.
 
quick

quick

Legend
Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Total posts
1,312
Awards
1
finally thought I broke through for (another) freeroll win late last night / this morning. I was cruising in 1st until I made the most common of my leak/mistakes. I was just trying to bully the other stacks into oblivion, and initially only had one big stack at my table to push back. Now I had another and they were both top 3 with me. Everyone else (20 to go) had significantly less. I open light with j8o and next to me shoves all in, next to him (big stack) flat calls and it is back to me. I am well aware that I'm likely 3rd best here. But I was getting great odds to see a flop and try and get lucky. When it came 8 high with possible straight draws out there I snap shoved what was likely equivalent to almost 2x pot, him having that much which was less than 50% of my stack. He snap calls and flips over kk. Didn't improve and the guy who should have won the hand did. Interestingly enough, the initial shover had ace rag and it fell on either the turn or river so we tripled him up and then I practically doubled up the other guy putting him in 1st and me down to 3rd. I AM AWARE I MADE A MAJOR MISTAKE, I don't need that analyzed.

But then I worked my way back up to 2nd and was contending for 1st. The guy in 1st was a bigger jag about it than I was. I could make a simple 2.2xBB open and he would snap shove all in. It was really annoying because I saw no value in calling him without an absolute monster. THEN, we get into a hand where I must have been in the blinds and if there were any opens they were small because I was playing 2ko. Flop comes 266r. I bet 2/3rd pot. Dude folds and he SNAP SHOVES AGAIN. I am completely fed up with his desire to not play "real poker" at this point. I'm in 2nd (or 3rd at worst) so up against the only person who can knock me out with 12-13 to go (10 paid). I take full time and run through it in my head. Sure, he could have me crushed with A2, any 6 or any pocket pair. But I rule most of that out and decide he is likely going crazy with AT BEST a weaker deuce. I give him no credit for anything better than 2q and so I call. Obviously a little excited to see I'm right with the 2q because although we'll chop almost 1/4th of the time, he is only 12% to win. But this is WPN, where 12% dreams become reality. He spikes the q winner on the river, I slam my computer shut and slam it onto the bed. I would have preferred getting knocked out in the first level and getting decent sleep than bubbling with so many chips.

I was going to post this for analysis elsewhere but it is a continuation of the rungood I was experiencing. Please critique the call if you're in my spot and you're CONVINCED that you're 65% to win.

I took all day today off from poker. I'm starting to think that even if I'm feeling so far ahead like 80/20, I may start folding my hands and not allowing my opponents to suck out for such big wins.

I would also like feedback on that idea. Thanks.

First hand you admit you made a major mistake. That's good. Obviously it's ok to bully the table as big stack but we can't recklessly be bully shoving with garbage like j8o because you WILL run into things as you did like KK. Unless everyone after you to act is short and you know must will fold out of bubble fears or one or two will call you wider , stop raising so much with junk. On the flop you paired you're 8 and are worried about st8 draws. You should also be concerned as to why the other players called your PFR. In this spot I might have bet 3/4 pot to pot and if someone shoves over the top I fold. Not sure why you bet 2x pot all in with J8. You generally want to avoid bullying the bigger stacks and some say even the tiny stacks, want to focus on the smaller but not smallest stacks.

Next spot. I often find myself chip leader and get into spots where I end up losing down the line. It happens. If I shove deep against a baby stack raise or shove before me with something like KQs and lose, whatever it was the correct call most of the time. Stack sizes matter! But again you're playing with absolute garbage, unless you limped in big blind with K2o , not sure why you're even in this hand. Sounds like you let emotions get you and you played ATC because "how dare these idiots keep shoving on me!" Obviously you made a good read in this case, he had what you thought he had. But again this is a HUGE mistake and a risky spot. He SHOVEs on a paired board and you assume your K2 is good? In this case on flop you were correct it was good, but if someone is shoving on a 266 board, they usually have an overpair, 22, or a 6 in their hand. Maybe something weird like AK or AQ. Yeah you got him behind on flop he sucked out it happens. Lesson: Don't play K2o like it's flopped nuts. I want to stress that while your hand reading here was good and may have made sense if you limped in big blind, most of the time you WILL lose this spot before the river. Most players aren't shoving with Q2 there.

But this is "WPN where 12% dreams come true" Replace "WPN" with any site. This is just silly magical thinking. Don't let your emotions dictate your play. If someone is bullying the table and you, don't just shove because you want "real poker." Pay attention , see when he shows down what crap he plays, then trap him with a massive hand and let him pay you off.

65% to win? So that means around 1/3 of the time you lose in those spots. We've all lost spots where we were like 98% to win before. It's poker.

If you're folding spots where you're 80/20 ahead and scared of someone sucking out, poker isn't for you. Sorry. The only case where one might even faintly consider folding so massively ahead is if you're on bubble and half the table is all in ahead of you and you'd get knocked out if you lost. And even then most people will take that chance no question. Folding when massively ahead is 99.9% of the time wrong. You WANT people to call with horrible odds and draw for their hands. Because long term you win. If you're a favorite 80/20, then what like 1/4 of the time you bet hard and they draw out/suck out you lose? Give me those odds all day everyday please. Because the other 3 times in that spot $$$$$ is yours.

Basically sounds like you're tilting and letting emotions dictate play. Bad idea.

I've asked nicely. I want someone to SERIOUSLY show me how to block this guy because I DO NOT want to see another post of his EVER AGAIN.

I have to agree here, this PokerOrfice guy's comment is a bit offensive and possibly a personal insult. Please suspend.
 
N

Nutcracker69

Visionary
Joined
Nov 10, 2015
Total posts
692
First hand you admit you made a major mistake. That's good. Obviously it's ok to bully the table as big stack but we can't recklessly be bully shoving with garbage like j8o because you WILL run into things as you did like KK. Unless everyone after you to act is short and you know must will fold out of bubble fears or one or two will call you wider , stop raising so much with junk. On the flop you paired you're 8 and are worried about st8 draws. You should also be concerned as to why the other players called your PFR. In this spot I might have bet 3/4 pot to pot and if someone shoves over the top I fold. Not sure why you bet 2x pot all in with J8. You generally want to avoid bullying the bigger stacks and some say even the tiny stacks, want to focus on the smaller but not smallest stacks.

Next spot. I often find myself chip leader and get into spots where I end up losing down the line. It happens. If I shove deep against a baby stack raise or shove before me with something like KQs and lose, whatever it was the correct call most of the time. Stack sizes matter! But again you're playing with absolute garbage, unless you limped in big blind with K2o , not sure why you're even in this hand. Sounds like you let emotions get you and you played ATC because "how dare these idiots keep shoving on me!" Obviously you made a good read in this case, he had what you thought he had. But again this is a HUGE mistake and a risky spot. He SHOVEs on a paired board and you assume your K2 is good? In this case on flop you were correct it was good, but if someone is shoving on a 266 board, they usually have an overpair, 22, or a 6 in their hand. Maybe something weird like AK or AQ. Yeah you got him behind on flop he sucked out it happens. Lesson: Don't play K2o like it's flopped nuts. I want to stress that while your hand reading here was good and may have made sense if you limped in big blind, most of the time you WILL lose this spot before the river. Most players aren't shoving with Q2 there.

But this is "WPN where 12% dreams come true" Replace "WPN" with any site. This is just silly magical thinking. Don't let your emotions dictate your play. If someone is bullying the table and you, don't just shove because you want "real poker." Pay attention , see when he shows down what crap he plays, then trap him with a massive hand and let him pay you off.

65% to win? So that means around 1/3 of the time you lose in those spots. We've all lost spots where we were like 98% to win before. It's poker.

If you're folding spots where you're 80/20 ahead and scared of someone sucking out, poker isn't for you. Sorry. The only case where one might even faintly consider folding so massively ahead is if you're on bubble and half the table is all in ahead of you and you'd get knocked out if you lost. And even then most people will take that chance no question. Folding when massively ahead is 99.9% of the time wrong. You WANT people to call with horrible odds and draw for their hands. Because long term you win. If you're a favorite 80/20, then what like 1/4 of the time you bet hard and they draw out/suck out you lose? Give me those odds all day everyday please. Because the other 3 times in that spot $$$$$ is yours.

Basically sounds like you're tilting and letting emotions dictate play. Bad idea.



I have to agree here, this PokerOrfice guy's comment is a bit offensive and possibly a personal insult. Please suspend.

The part you missed/got incorrect was my losing possibilities on my call. I was 65% to win, but NOT 35% to lose. Only 12% to lose, 25% to split.
 
C

Chipsteal_jj

Rock Star
Joined
May 21, 2014
Total posts
182
And the post of the day goes to - Poker Orifice
 
N

Nutcracker69

Visionary
Joined
Nov 10, 2015
Total posts
692
This message is hidden because Poker Orifice is on your ignore list.

ahhh... bliss
The jackash who never learned how to play nice will no longer be able to communicate with me. I'm enjoying my experience on here much better already.
 
Top