In this scenario I'm sure I made the correct call but just how wide are we calling off in this situation?

Final table $2000 up top

Final 7 already got $210 locked up

Blinds 100000/50000 ante 5000

Sb villan 1.2m
BB hero 1.4m

Small blind shoves and I call it off with A8d

I'm sure he's shoving any Ax Kx or maybe even wider

Thoughts?
They had been almost no post flop play of any kind with someone shoving every hand villan had done this a few times blind on blind

Stack sizes are quite similar between myself and 3 others with 3 bigger stacks having double and more what we have

Fold. I'm pretty sure that's just ICM suicide based on what you've described but for a more complete answer there needs to be more info regarding exact chip stacks for every player as well as the payouts for each position.

Originally Posted by toots babos

Fold. I'm pretty sure that's just ICM suicide based on what you've described but for a more complete answer there needs to be more info regarding exact chip stacks for every player as well as the payouts for each position.

Just with the way the action was and previous from this villan he shoved nearly every time blind on blind when folded to him. He turned over A2o. Thanks I just really felt he was going wide. It looked like a chopped pot with a K K 10 J board until the dreaded 2 hit the river. I don't have exact chip counts
1st $1988
2nd $1200
3rd $ 900
4th$ $790
5th $ 550
6th $375
7th$250
They were roughly but not exact payouts

Unlucky with the bust out, I still think it's a fold given the payouts.

In these situations we all look towards the shortest stack to be the one to make the moves and the shortest stack is praying that the medium stacks get involved with each other with the hope that a stack becomes shorter than theirs which is what happened.

Shoving from the small blind into the big blind is very common with your stack sizes since the small blind can jam very lightly into you knowing that you need to have a fairly decent hand in order to call it off.

With 12BB effective stacks and no real ICM-pressure, since both players involved are already short stacks and need to dubble up, SB is supposed to be jamming very wide. Not quite any two cards, but almost anything except pure junk. And for this reason, if that is actually, what SB is doing, BB should also call pretty wide.

A program like ICMizer can give the exact answer, but just from memory and watching some of Collin Moshman and Katie Doziers videos its somewhere near 50% of hands. Which certainly include any AX. Very few people actually call enough in these spots, which is why, it is enormously profitable to jam as SB.

Originally Posted by toots babos

Unlucky with the bust out, I still think it's a fold given the payouts.

In these situations we all look towards the shortest stack to be the one to make the moves and the shortest stack is praying that the medium stacks get involved with each other with the hope that a stack becomes shorter than theirs which is what happened.

Shoving from the small blind into the big blind is very common with your stack sizes since the small blind can jam very lightly into you knowing that you need to have a fairly decent hand in order to call it off.

I was 6th of 7 with shover being the short stack 4th and 5th had maybe 2 BB more and biggest stack was around 4.5m.

I am sure programs will say this is a clear call. I am personally on the edge in this spot with this hand. The fold side of me thinks that with 14 BB I would still rather be the agreesor than the caller and there will be spots coming up to easily shove. I would rather shove K9 here then call A8. However, I hate folding an Ace in this spot where we know our opponent is shoving an ace, King and probably a lot Qx. I also see that from your description that no one is that low and we are very close to the small stacks which also makes me lean towards calling.

In the end, I am on team call with this hand. Yes it will turn out badly at times but you will be going up against so many hands you beat plus all the small pairs that we flip with are also doing this. If there was just one stack that was very small I would be more inclined to fold but I like the call here. A8 is just too strong to be folding here.

If it was an EP shove, then folding would have been proper. With blind vs. blind, I think an A8s is almost mandatory call at 12BB. I think my calling range here would include Axs, A7o+, QT+, 55+.

Don't worry about catching the bad beat. Know that next time you are on the final table, Lady Luck owes you one.

Originally Posted by thehangdude

If it was an EP shove, then folding would have been proper. With blind vs. blind, I think an A8s is almost mandatory call at 12BB. I think my calling range here would include Axs, A7o+, QT+, 55+.

Don't worry about catching the bad beat. Know that next time you are on the final table, Lady Luck owes you one.

Thanks if there was a lot of difference in the stacks and there were shorter stacks than myself then folding might of came into play however being 6 of 7 and needing a double up I went for the win rather than trying to survive and jump up a ladder or two

Pretty easy call. A8o...I don't know the exact situation. Are there any small stacks, passive ones or aggro...Aggro chipleader or passive. The problem here is this "extra" 200k chips. If you lose, they are almost "useless". And that's why, if the SB is more aggro, will shove very wide, maybe close to 100%. I will do that...But if you are not just "you and him" at this table (the short stacks), I think it is better to fold K2-K5o...
I saw your explanations now, sorry. Yeah, I will fold K5o.

Tough spot, with sb shoving often so basically any A any K any suited braodway, I'd probably be calling here as you did, though I'd REALLY be wanting my kicker to be a little stronger.

However - I think you made the right call.