NeverEnough
Rock Star
Silver Level
I never seem to have any luck stealing. Always pick the wrong spot lol.
I will admit that I do need to play the button more, though.
I will admit that I do need to play the button more, though.
NeverEnough
Rock Star
Silver Level
100% true. I am amazed at the amount of people that call me, and the amounts they call, to chase their draw or with bottom pair & no kicker or just plain air.
NeverEnough
Rock Star
Silver Level
What kinds of hands are you looking to get your chips in for a race and in what particular situations/blind levels?I think the key is really just to grow balls of steal. The thing with tournaments is that you need to accept that in order to win, most of the time you're going to need to win a few races and get lucky several times. What you need to be doing is putting yourself in the best position to get lucky and to make the most use of your luck when you are. Because the blinds are going to be putting a lot of pressure on everyone you need to really be playing an aggressive game in order to take the fight to your opponents, a lot of players are going to be reluctant to put their tournament life on the line so if you are willing to gamble and give them decisions for all their chips then this will put you at a huge advantage. plus having chips gives you so much more play and also increases your fear equity making life much much more pleasant for you, soon enough players including yourself if you are being too tight will start needing to make shoves with a very wide range of hand so if you can avoid being in this situation you will be doing very well.
Also consider cards that are behind are often much closer than you think in terms of percentages, I cant remember all the exact percentages off the top of my head but just having live cards often puts you in a near race situation, couple that with fold equity and making plays where youre unlikely to be dominated pays off big time. I mean because a tournament will largly be based off of the short term I think that a 60/40 is almost worth considering as being 50/50 especially if you are the aggressor. Because tournaments pay so top heavy I feel like being perceived almost as a maniac can be a pretty profitable style, even if you come across as a luckbox you will find that as far as tournaments go, being aggressive and willing to gamble is key, plus people wont want to steal from you or play with you either
Overall in order to play less tight just consider that aggression pays, you will need to get lucky anyway so why not put yourself in the best chance to get lucky and remember that most hands are far closer equity wise than you might think. that's just my opinion on tournaments, its not always easy playing so riskily
loafes
Legend
Silver Level
Well if I can take a racing situation I'm probably going to be doing it, but this really depends on field size tournament structure and level plus weather I have a skill edge over my opponents, mostly there is going to already be money in the pot so if you put your opponent on a range that is likely racing vs your hand then its usually correct to take the risk (assuming you aren't in the early stages that is) mostly its when the the blinds are worth playing for and usually an ante is involved.
Also if you can, you ideally want to be the one that's being the aggressor, they say you can go all in with any two cards but calling needs a stronger hand. obviously this isn't in all situations, its just a way to get the point across
NeverEnough
Rock Star
Silver Level
Never antes in the MTT I play. Typical field is around 100 up to 150 or so.
loafes
Legend
Silver Level
Maybe in that sort of field and such looking to get any race isn't necessary, however I stand by my point that aggression and picking up blinds is still key. I wont give exact hand ranges, not right now anyway, however basically I think just widening up your range in position and being very aggressive is how to take down tournaments, if you put people to descisions for lots of their chips especially if it's their tournament life then you will find things seem to go your way.
Loonbat
Rock Star
Silver Level
You're playing in reverse ... sounds like you start off a little wider and then tighten as things get deeper. This is the exact style that less-experienced live players favor.
The thought process is that since they have more chips and blinds are cheap, they take more flops. This widens their range (considerably) and you find yourself in pots against a lot more draw hands and more random hands in general. Also, you find that since it is so cheap for them to call raises, steals rarely work.
As the game progresses and they've spewed off a few chips here and a few chips there, they end up tightening their range, usually to the point of only have the option of push or fold. Your goal has to be to take advantage of both scenarios.
I start so tight it hurts and I'm paying close attention to all the action. I spend the first few levels (the first hour or two) identifying my targets. When they start tightening up is when I start actively accumulating chips, especially if antes come into play. My style works best with a good structure, but can be accelerated for these live turbos.
Additionally, keep an eye on the tourney clock in fast structures. You need to know when your effective stack gets halved due to a screwy level change. I always look at the blind levels when an event starts and identify where I might feel screwed. If a game goes from 100/200 to 200/400 the next level, I need to know this. It will help my decision making processes as the last few minutes of the 100/200 level expire.
And don't wait too long. Many tight players don't realize they're in the danger zone until it's too late. When you are down to 25 BBs, this is where you need to really start looking for those ideal spots. By the time you hit 15 BBs (and even sooner than this), have that 3B ship ready to go.
NeverEnough
Rock Star
Silver Level
But you won't tell me what kinds of hands or ranges I should be willing to toss a lot of chips in to put the pressure on?
The way I play now, I don't commit a lot of chips unless I have the nuts or damn close to it.
NeverEnough
Rock Star
Silver Level
I never try to steal early. The blinds are just not worth the risk.
Maybe I made it sound like I play really loose early. That is not the case. Will I limp in with suited connectors or something like that if I have some limpers ahead of me early on? Yes, but I am not playing junk & such just b/c it is early with low blinds.
I agree and try to do this, but when I do I always seem to be card dead & can't really do anything. The levels are 20 minutes each in the MTT I play.
I am guilty of waiting too long a lot.
25 is still a pretty workable stack. I have a hard time shipping it with anything but a top hand like QQ+ or maybe AK. AQ hates me so I really don't like shipping with that unless I am really in danger.
Loonbat
Rock Star
Silver Level
The reason I point to 25 (and maybe even sooner) is because of the poor structure. Realize that with a 20 min blind level, you're seeing (realistically) 10 - 12 hands per level. This doesn't give you many opportunities to find a top 5 (or even top 10) hand. A top 20 in LP should be more what you're looking for.
I would say 25 BBs is workable if the clock is on your side (ie Venetian deepstack or wsop type event)
cardsking
Visionary
Silver Level
Buddy , today i played this tournament , Rakethe rake in Full titlt poker .
At one time i have 750 chips and positioned 1175 of 1230 players .
Most might just go for an all in , when chips are less . But i controlled myself , even when i got a 7 7 , I refused to go .
I played pretty tight , I had a full house , i betted only 200 , the other big stack guy raised , i called and 1500 . I kept playin tight even when i have cards .
Result : I completed 18th in the Tournament of 1500 players .
Im pretty proud of my accomplishent movin from 1100 to 18th .
There is no rule to follow , follow ur instincts . This is not a subject to study
Even in the end , I got around 45,000 , my opponent has 170,000 Chips .
I had pocket Jacks , I dont mind loosin then , im pretty happy .
2 queens turned , QQ 2 , i went for an all in . My Villan has a Q , so i know my game is over
Play as you want it , but dont over do anything and be predictable
Good luck
At one time i have 750 chips and positioned 1175 of 1230 players .
Most might just go for an all in , when chips are less . But i controlled myself , even when i got a 7 7 , I refused to go .
I played pretty tight , I had a full house , i betted only 200 , the other big stack guy raised , i called and 1500 . I kept playin tight even when i have cards .
Result : I completed 18th in the Tournament of 1500 players .
Im pretty proud of my accomplishent movin from 1100 to 18th .
There is no rule to follow , follow ur instincts . This is not a subject to study
Even in the end , I got around 45,000 , my opponent has 170,000 Chips .
I had pocket Jacks , I dont mind loosin then , im pretty happy .
2 queens turned , QQ 2 , i went for an all in . My Villan has a Q , so i know my game is over
Play as you want it , but dont over do anything and be predictable
Good luck
M
matiusaa
Visionary
Silver Level
I personally play depending my stack and my opponents stack, if I and my opponent are deep, i can play suited conectors, but If I or my opponent are shortstack, you have to play stronger hands and go all in, because of the fold equity. When you see you have around 20 blinds, it time to steal lots of blinds, and play very strong hands, but all in preflop. That's how I do, but it basically depends how deep or short you are (or the opponent you are playing against)
jhonihgrass
Rock Star
Silver Level
I'll give you some advice que my brother gave me once, do not throw the prize, play the cards, forget the ultimate prize and remember the cards you have on hand!
T
tohos
Rock Star
Silver Level
Buddy , today i played this tournament , Rakethe rake in Full titlt poker .
At one time i have 750 chips and positioned 1175 of 1230 players .
Most might just go for an all in , when chips are less . But i controlled myself , even when i got a 7 7 , I refused to go .
I played pretty tight , I had a full house , i betted only 200 , the other big stack guy raised , i called and 1500 . I kept playin tight even when i have cards .
Result : I completed 18th in the Tournament of 1500 players .
Im pretty proud of my accomplishent movin from 1100 to 18th .
There is no rule to follow , follow ur instincts . This is not a subject to study
Even in the end , I got around 45,000 , my opponent has 170,000 Chips .
I had pocket Jacks , I dont mind loosin then , im pretty happy .
2 queens turned , QQ 2 , i went for an all in . My Villan has a Q , so i know my game is over
Play as you want it , but dont over do anything and be predictable
Good luck
You have to be more specific in regards to position and your stack in terms of BB rather than flat numbers. You can have 750 stack and have 37.5BB at 10/20 or it can be 3BB at 125/250. Same thing with your JJ.
A lot more factors come into play as to how you should play certain hands when you have a playable stack as to shove/fold stack. Just saying I have this number stack doesn't really say much.
If I had shove/fold stack with 77 from late position I'm shoving all the time. If I had a playable stack and table is passive maybe I'll limp to try and set mine. Maybe if opponent is weak I'll raise to iso and outplay post flop. If I had 77 with like more than 5/6M from EP, I might consider folding depending on how cally the table is.
You didn't say what you did with your JJ either. What happened preflop? Why did you decide to do go all in? Who are you hoping to get value from? KK/AA probably aren't folding so you're most likely beat whenever you get called and the hands you do beat are probably calling very rarely.
Sorry if I come across as an ass but I find your post lacking too much information.
Other than saying "look I played tight and survived to final 2 tables" your post didn't offer much. Also you should be looking to win the MTT not just get deep if you want to be a consistent winner. Getting deep doesn't net you enough returns. The payout difference between 18th and 1st is a hell of a lot.
NeverEnough
Rock Star
Silver Level
Those very strong hands don't seem to come around hardly ever let alone when I really need them b/c I am short stacked. Waiting forever for those hands causes folks to get blinded out.
NeverEnough
Rock Star
Silver Level
I do play the cards & just never get enough to win. Sometimes, you need to play the player or situation.
T
tohos
Rock Star
Silver Level
Would be better if you could do it almost every time instead of just sometimes. Play according to the opposition, your perceived image, the board textures and your cards. In fact I find that being aware of opponents' tendencies is much more important than my cards during the late stages of an MTT once blinds are big and alot of hands end preflop.
Arjonius
Legend
Silver Level
Trying to steal early doesn't win you much when you succeed, but there's more to consider than just that. For instance, are you playing at a level where all your opponents or even the majority are good enough to clearly separate your steal-position opening bets from your openings in other positions? Those who don't make this differentiation well will simply see how often you open, which means any image they form won't be fully accurate.
As well, the flip side of not having much to win early because the blinds are small is that you don't stand to lose much either. So even if you get 3-bet once in a while and fold, what have you lost? Unless it's enough to make a meaningful difference to the playability of your stack, so what?
NeverEnough
Rock Star
Silver Level
Most folks in these MTTs are calling stations & will likely call the raise very early on.
B
Blue_Fossil
Rock Star
Silver Level
My worst events are when I get too many playable hands early. I'm a tight player by nature, but of course am always on the look-out for opportunities to play suited connectors, big connectors, or small pocket pairs cheaply. But if I get too many of those without connecting, the stack shrinks in a hurry.
My best events are when I get garbage early that I can easily throw away. That establishes the tight image I want, which really opens things up later in the game.
So I guess I'm saying being tight is generally good, especially early.
My best events are when I get garbage early that I can easily throw away. That establishes the tight image I want, which really opens things up later in the game.
So I guess I'm saying being tight is generally good, especially early.
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NeverEnough
Rock Star
Silver Level
I have recently gone back to my super tight play that I used to always run with & am noticing that I'm doing better (At least online).
Can't wait to see if this translates to doing well LIVE again as well next time I hit the casino.
Can't wait to see if this translates to doing well LIVE again as well next time I hit the casino.
NeverEnough
Rock Star
Silver Level
Maybe I should keep playing tight LOL!
Played another live MTT Sunday night and went out in 11th (89 entrants)
Too bad only the top 8 got paid. I was nursing a extreme low stack with 4-5 BBs.
I went in with the plan to go back to playing very tight & it worked for me well until getting knocked out.
Ended up shoving on an all club flop of 3 4 10 when the only player in bets 15k (Blinds 4k/8k) & my read of him not having a club was right & I had A5o (No clubs). I didn't get an A or 2 so I busted. (He had a 10)
Played another live MTT Sunday night and went out in 11th (89 entrants)
Too bad only the top 8 got paid. I was nursing a extreme low stack with 4-5 BBs.
I went in with the plan to go back to playing very tight & it worked for me well until getting knocked out.
Ended up shoving on an all club flop of 3 4 10 when the only player in bets 15k (Blinds 4k/8k) & my read of him not having a club was right & I had A5o (No clubs). I didn't get an A or 2 so I busted. (He had a 10)
Arjonius
Legend
Silver Level
So? Most are also fit or fold types which means you pick up quite a few pots when they check the flop and you c-bet in position since that's where you usually are when you steal. Even if these small wins don't add up to a lot, they can still help shape an image that you can use later. And this is still so if you lose a little on your attempts.
M
Marsd
Rock Star
Silver Level
I think you should play your style, whatever that may be-- if your not comfortable playing more aggressively then try something else.
However, people seem to be saying that you should play more aggressive instead of tight-- but you can play tight AND be aggressive--
From what the OP said it sounded like your tight play was fine, but you were maybe not being aggressive enough with those hands.
I think you should continue playing tight if you are most comfortable with that, but also work on playing those hands that you do choose to play more aggressively.
However, people seem to be saying that you should play more aggressive instead of tight-- but you can play tight AND be aggressive--
From what the OP said it sounded like your tight play was fine, but you were maybe not being aggressive enough with those hands.
I think you should continue playing tight if you are most comfortable with that, but also work on playing those hands that you do choose to play more aggressively.