Nafor
Legend
Loyaler
Welcome to CardsChat ezzolye,
If you are playing against odd opponents - then no - there is very little you can do, except keep your eyes open during the game and take notes.
But if you play regularly with the same crowd (like in CC freerolls), then a HUD can be your friend (if the poker site in question allows the use of HUDs). A good hud, like PokerTracker, does collect information about your opponents, and in the long run it can provide pretty accurate stats.
If you are playing against odd opponents - then no - there is very little you can do, except keep your eyes open during the game and take notes.
But if you play regularly with the same crowd (like in CC freerolls), then a HUD can be your friend (if the poker site in question allows the use of HUDs). A good hud, like PokerTracker, does collect information about your opponents, and in the long run it can provide pretty accurate stats.
rabman50
Enthusiast
Silver Level
For an unknown opponent I use standard ranges based on their position and stack size. As I see more hands with the opponent I will start to get a better idea of how to either expand or contract their range. If someone frequently limps I will expand their range to include a lot of unconnected suited and connected offsuit hands that would not be in a standard range. If the opponent appears tight only open raising I will contract their range. The most important thing to do is to pay attention to hands that they showdown. Noticing the hands that they showdown is the best way to define an opponents range.
razarach_xD
Rock Star
Silver Level
Why would the hell he need to start with the HUD ? I mean, I would forbid all types of HUDs. Are you going to have one on a real tournament ? Or you never plan to go....
There is no such good feeeling when you play actively, isolate fishes, sharks, tight or calling stations. When you know your opponent,it's half of the game... no need for HUD, you're not retarded that you can't memorize 25 things.. yes 25...
Nafor
Legend
Loyaler
No. I'm not saying that he should start using one. I'm only saying that it is an option, and it can help OP to find answers to the kind of questions he is presenting, if certain conditions are met.
Some people like HUDs and some don't. Everyone has their opinions, but in the end people make (or at least they should make) their own choices. It is simple as that.
Roller
Legend
Platinum Level
Mainly dependent on what level your playing at, example micros can be difficult at times since many players don't know themselves and their play let alone you being able to know them. There are standards that you can easily recognize but not on all players.
razarach_xD
Rock Star
Silver Level
No. I'm not saying that he should start using one. I'm only saying that it is an option, and it can help OP to find answers to the kind of questions he is presenting, if certain conditions are met.
/QUOTE]
Yes, its an option.
But isn't it better that he try to process all those informations by himself and I think playing 1 tournament at the time - HUD is not needed.
I can see it worth for people that play multiple tourneys at the same time.
I mean, if you cant isolate calling stations by looking at the table... same for pre flop raisers, who makes c-bets, who usually folds after reraise...
at the end, we all agree that poker is lifetime to master...
F
fundiver199
Legend
Loyaler
There is no simple answer for how to do hand reading. Its something, which comes with practice, and one could argue, that its the entire game of poker, at least when hands go postflop, and decisions become more complicated. But to try to answer your question, many coaches now talk about the "hand funnel", which is a way to say, that for each action ranges become more and more narrow, and they never become wider. Let me give an example:
Action: You open AsQh from CO, and BB calls.
Hand reading: At this point your opponent can have a lot of different hands, since he defended his big blind against a late position open. There is no point in listing all of them, but lets just say, he can have at least the top 50% of hands maybe even more, if for instance you min-raised. However he probably dont have the top 5-10% of hands, since he would have 3-bet those. So he can have for instance 44, A9 or KJ, but he can not have QQ, AK or 72.
Flop: AcJc4s.
Action: You can easily get called by worse, so you C-bet for 40% pot. He call.
Hand reading: For him to call your C-bet, he probably connected with the board in at least some way. So he could have AX, JX, 4X 55-TT, a club-draw and maybe some gutshots like KQ, KT or QT. But he can no longer have for instance 86 or 22, because those hands will just fold to your C-bet. He also probably dont have 44, AJ or A4, because those hands would likely have check-raised, unless he is mixing in a slowplay from time to time.
Turn: AcJc4s-2h
Action: You can still easily get called by worse, so you bet again and this time for 70% pot, He call again.
Hand reading: For him to call again and a larger bet this time, he probably need to have either a strong draw or at least top pair. So at this point we can likely narrow his range down to hands like A5-AT, clubdraws and some occational slowplay like A4 or 44. Maybe another AQ as well. We could be behind now to A2, but not to 22, since that hand likely folded on the flop.
River: AcJc4s-2h-4d
Action: The opponent now lead out for 65% pot, and the action is on us.
Hand reading: By leading out on the river, he is representing a hand stronger than ours. Its not likely, he is doing this with A5-AT or even AQ. Those hands would check and then make a decision, if we bet. But what can he have, that we lose to, and that would get to the river like this? Even though he could potentially have made trips, he cant have hands like K4 or 54 now, if he folded them on the turn, so we are not particularly worried about trips. This is the concept, that the hand range funnel gets narrower and never wider.
He could have a hand like 42, which backed into a full house, but 42o probably folded preflop, so that would only be 42 of clubs exactly. He could maybe also have A4, which is another 4 combos, and maybe J4 of hearts. So all in all we can find 6 combos, we lose to, which we think might play like this. And then there are bluffs. The most obvious draw was clubs, which missed, and knowing, that he cant win at showdown, maybe he decided to lead out trying to pretend he made trips on the river.
Action: When so few logical combos beat us, and there are busted draws, he could potentially be bluffing with, we should not fold. There is no point in raising either though, because either he is bluffing, or he has a better hand than ours, and turning AQ into a bluff makes no sense. So given the action and the way, the board ran out, we have an easy call.
Showdown: The opponent shows Th4c and scoops the pot with 3 of a kind.
Evaluation: On the surface it seems like, our hand reading did not work out, because the opponent showed up with a hand, we did not think, he could still have after calling us preflop, on the flop and on the turn. However when something like this happen, we need to remember, that he only had 5 outs on the flop and turn. So even when he gets paid on the river, he is still making a losing call on the turn, and therefore we should not beat ourselfes up over this result.
Instead we should make a note like "calling station" or put a "fish" tag on the opponent and look forward to get involved with him again. Its also worth nothing, that when people call very wide, they can also have more hands, that miss, and that they might turn into bluffs. So while a player like this might show us T4 offsuit, he might also show something completely weird like T2 offsuit, which he decided to turn into a bluff on the river. Or maybe he does actually lead out with A8, because he just "improved" to two pair.
So while our hand reading did not work out so well against this opponent, and we did end up losing the hand, we still made good and solid decisions on all streets and just ended up getting unlucky on the river. And therefore we should not look to change anything, and the most important job for us is to keep a cool head and not begin tilting, because a bad player got lucky against us.
Action: You open AsQh from CO, and BB calls.
Hand reading: At this point your opponent can have a lot of different hands, since he defended his big blind against a late position open. There is no point in listing all of them, but lets just say, he can have at least the top 50% of hands maybe even more, if for instance you min-raised. However he probably dont have the top 5-10% of hands, since he would have 3-bet those. So he can have for instance 44, A9 or KJ, but he can not have QQ, AK or 72.
Flop: AcJc4s.
Action: You can easily get called by worse, so you C-bet for 40% pot. He call.
Hand reading: For him to call your C-bet, he probably connected with the board in at least some way. So he could have AX, JX, 4X 55-TT, a club-draw and maybe some gutshots like KQ, KT or QT. But he can no longer have for instance 86 or 22, because those hands will just fold to your C-bet. He also probably dont have 44, AJ or A4, because those hands would likely have check-raised, unless he is mixing in a slowplay from time to time.
Turn: AcJc4s-2h
Action: You can still easily get called by worse, so you bet again and this time for 70% pot, He call again.
Hand reading: For him to call again and a larger bet this time, he probably need to have either a strong draw or at least top pair. So at this point we can likely narrow his range down to hands like A5-AT, clubdraws and some occational slowplay like A4 or 44. Maybe another AQ as well. We could be behind now to A2, but not to 22, since that hand likely folded on the flop.
River: AcJc4s-2h-4d
Action: The opponent now lead out for 65% pot, and the action is on us.
Hand reading: By leading out on the river, he is representing a hand stronger than ours. Its not likely, he is doing this with A5-AT or even AQ. Those hands would check and then make a decision, if we bet. But what can he have, that we lose to, and that would get to the river like this? Even though he could potentially have made trips, he cant have hands like K4 or 54 now, if he folded them on the turn, so we are not particularly worried about trips. This is the concept, that the hand range funnel gets narrower and never wider.
He could have a hand like 42, which backed into a full house, but 42o probably folded preflop, so that would only be 42 of clubs exactly. He could maybe also have A4, which is another 4 combos, and maybe J4 of hearts. So all in all we can find 6 combos, we lose to, which we think might play like this. And then there are bluffs. The most obvious draw was clubs, which missed, and knowing, that he cant win at showdown, maybe he decided to lead out trying to pretend he made trips on the river.
Action: When so few logical combos beat us, and there are busted draws, he could potentially be bluffing with, we should not fold. There is no point in raising either though, because either he is bluffing, or he has a better hand than ours, and turning AQ into a bluff makes no sense. So given the action and the way, the board ran out, we have an easy call.
Showdown: The opponent shows Th4c and scoops the pot with 3 of a kind.
Evaluation: On the surface it seems like, our hand reading did not work out, because the opponent showed up with a hand, we did not think, he could still have after calling us preflop, on the flop and on the turn. However when something like this happen, we need to remember, that he only had 5 outs on the flop and turn. So even when he gets paid on the river, he is still making a losing call on the turn, and therefore we should not beat ourselfes up over this result.
Instead we should make a note like "calling station" or put a "fish" tag on the opponent and look forward to get involved with him again. Its also worth nothing, that when people call very wide, they can also have more hands, that miss, and that they might turn into bluffs. So while a player like this might show us T4 offsuit, he might also show something completely weird like T2 offsuit, which he decided to turn into a bluff on the river. Or maybe he does actually lead out with A8, because he just "improved" to two pair.
So while our hand reading did not work out so well against this opponent, and we did end up losing the hand, we still made good and solid decisions on all streets and just ended up getting unlucky on the river. And therefore we should not look to change anything, and the most important job for us is to keep a cool head and not begin tilting, because a bad player got lucky against us.
nuttea
Visionary
Bronze Level
Good poker players often mix their strategies and balance different ranges to try to confuse their opponents and prevent them from being exploited. Bad players or newbies due to low understanding of the game often just play at random and can show absurd and unpredictable lines. Because of this, some of your attempts to read your opponent's range will fail. But reading the ranges does not imply a 100% accurate result, it assumes that, with a certain degree of probability, your opponent will have hands in the range you envision.Trying to build up your opponent's possible range on each street helps you make optimal moves based on changes in board structure. In this particular example, hero took advantage of his range over his opponent's range on the turn and tried to get the most value by overbetting a polarized range.
jordanbillie
Legend
Bronze Level
I apply quantum probability to my opponent's "range."
I try to get a good understanding on how opponents play in certain key situations, and make adjustments to maximize the spots I choose to take.
The magic formula is to pay attention to what successful poker players are doing, and to understand why the techniques/tactics work.
franken222
Visionary
Bronze Level
That's a pretty hard thing to do, at the beginning of a tournament For me, the best way is to wait, and see if you can pick up any patterns from the other players.
One, is what you mentioned, and that is frequency of times in someone stays in the hand.
Also, after you get further into the game, it's good to monitor how aggressive they are pre-flop.
Someone mentioned huds, and taking notes, and those are two of the best things you can do.
One piece of sound advice I can give is not to get sucked in to the "all-in fests" at the start of tournament. You won't be able to analyze anything if you do that (except your losses).
Good luck.
One, is what you mentioned, and that is frequency of times in someone stays in the hand.
Also, after you get further into the game, it's good to monitor how aggressive they are pre-flop.
Someone mentioned huds, and taking notes, and those are two of the best things you can do.
One piece of sound advice I can give is not to get sucked in to the "all-in fests" at the start of tournament. You won't be able to analyze anything if you do that (except your losses).
Good luck.
Amanda A
Legend
Bronze Level
Also keep an eye on not just the frequency of entering the pot but how they entered the pot. Did they 3bet or call? If they just called it's unlikely AA KK AK unless they are trapping. If they 3bet, then those hands are in their range.
Luvepoker
Lost in the twilight zone
Community Guide
1st, welcome to cardschat.
Dont get worried about exact numbers or ranges. Just like everything we do in poker it's all an educated guess. Also is not even easy if you use a HUD. Use the best HUD in the world. Your mind.
Say you sit at the table for about 20 minutes with a player. He only players one hand for a raise. He bet the flop and everyone folds and he has aces and shows. What do you see here? Well in 20 Minutes you can estimate 18 to 20 hand played online. Just say 20. 1 hand in 20 is 5%. Not that you need to do the math but he is very tight. His one hand played showed aces and proves a point. You can say he is playing pocket aces to queens and AK at this point. 20 minutes later he has played 5 more hands for raises. so now 6 of 40. This is still tight. Now he has showed AQs and pocket tens. Again, he is still tight. and he never just called or limped. Not as bad as early on but looking at the hands he showed and how little he played you can guess his range now as pocket tens and better and AQ but now with 40 hands and seeing about how often he is playing you can adjust a bit and safely say pocket 8's or 9's and AJ or better and KQ. Just remember it's never an exact science.
Now let's change it up. A guy you play in the 1st 20 minutes plays 9 hand for a raise and 2 for a call. You can put him into a looser range of about 1/2 the hands played but remember it is a small sample size. This player shows pocket tens, jack and AK twice. with this info you can say he may not be as loose as he seems Why, he is showing good hands and a lot of them.
Lets change it again, Same stats as before but now he shows, pocket 6's, A5o A7o, 9To and Q9o. Look at the starting hands. Now where did he raise some of these? well he raised 9To from UNG+2. You can see your information her confirms he is looser and use the hand he is showing in your estimation of his range here.
Hope this makes sense and helps you.
Zapahlohotrona
Visionary
Silver Level
It's a strange question: how do you play poker in general? Against the unknown, we play in a standard way, we use standard opening ranges. After a few hands, it’s already clear who this player is, a fish or not. I prefer to use a HUD, you can also put color marks.