How do you define a hero call on major MTT (except freeroll)?

debriz

debriz

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I never experienced yet a hero call in my Tournament life especially against an All in bluffer..Very hard to do a hero call, just imagining..
 
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thefwa

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Here is a good hero call of mine, fairly recent.

BTN: 29.2 BB (VPIP: 14.29, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, hands: 75)
SB: 38.68 BB (VPIP: 10.53, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 149)
BB: 17.65 BB (VPIP: 26.32, PFR: 15.79, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 192)
UTG: 52.6 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 625)
UTG+1: 115.85 BB (VPIP: 23.53, PFR: 11.76, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 134)
MP: 40.33 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 22.22, 3Bet Preflop: 18.18, Hands: 1258)
Hero (MP+1): 76.12 BB
CO: 64.25 BB (VPIP: 15.79, PFR: 5.56, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 19)

8 players post ante of 0.1 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.3 BB) Hero has Ac Th
fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.18 BB, fold, fold, fold, BB calls 1.18 BB

Flop : (5.65 BB, 2 players) 5s 8c 4s
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn : (5.65 BB, 2 players) 5c
BB bets 2.83 BB, Hero calls 2.83 BB

River : (11.3 BB, 2 players) 3s
BB bets 12.55 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 12.55 BB

Hero shows Ac Th (One Pair, Fives)
(Pre 71%, Flop 66%, Turn 77%)

BB shows 6s Ad (One Pair, Fives)
(Pre 29%, Flop 34%, Turn 23%)

Hero wins 36.39 BB

With Ace high, I beat only bluffs.

It wasn't for my tournament life, but it was for his.
Here's why I justified a call:
What hands is he doing this with would he shove a 5 to basically get no value, I've seen this player play his super strong hands, and all of which were bet pretty small on the river to get value.
I he going to shove a any 8 X or 4 X ?? Would he play a set this way on the flop? Would he play a draw this way? If the story doesnt make sense, you call ~sometimes~ and fold sometimes to play GTO. Because a lot of times in this situation, unless your facing a very good reg, people dont shove the river without at least a very good hand?

Here is a MUCH better example of a good bluff catch.

I had another one (I cannot find) where somebody check raised on Js Ts 3h flop. And I had AJ. Turn comes Brick (no spade) he leads smaller than his check raise, a lot of the times meaning he may be drawing. I call, River another Brick , no possible flushes got the and no straights got there (basically none of the draws got there. He goes all in for just over the pot, putting me nearly all in.
So I have to think, what is he doing this with for value and what is he doing this with as a bluff... Value hands: TT, JJ he probably would have 3 bet, especially at our stack depth ( 25-30ish BB). So that leaves 33 and JT and ocasionally hands that were bluffs that may have turned to 2 pair on the turn or river. Which is only a small combination of hands.
What about his bluffs on the river? KQ, Q9, 98 (sometimes) and possiblyQ8, K9 etc.., A lot of 2 spade cards (some with combo draws), and finally some worse hands he may be turning into bluffs like J9, T9, 99, QT. Also, some STONE COLD BLUFFS (but you wont see that too too often).

So lets see, how many of these hands are we losing to, and how many hands are we beating out of the amount that makes sense. Lets say hypothetically we beat his hand 80% of the time in this scenario, and if you play game theory optimal, you should probably call this shove 80% of the time and fold the other 20%. It may seem weird, but that is what I would characterize as a good bluff catch. I dont think a good bluff catch ever means getting Q X to showdown on a A K Q 9 8 board.

I hope this helps
 
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Tosh_67

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LOL... Thanks guys I'm a bit stupid I had to google 'Hero Call'

Now I know what it is I can safely say I have attempted them and failed ! Did it once on a final table after 5 hours of play and busted out...I was tilted a bit at the time cos the Button was stealing my blinds every round and I just reckoned he had nothing !

...but i was wrong

It hurt Doubly so cos most of the room laughed at my Donk call !!

Is it still a hero call if you have them dominated with your chip stack ? Pretty sure I've called people down when they are short stacked and likely shoving when they miss the flop or something...
 
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subdylzep

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basically a hero call is when someone is representing a huge pair or a flush or straight on the river, trying to steal the pot from someone they know has them beat. It could be almost anything. A good example is when someone is representing a top pair from out of position and betting 3/4 pot to pot size bets on the flop and turn and river and the flush possibility hits on the river and someone from inposition tries to steal it by pushing all in or raising 3x the bet or so to represent it, Calling out of position with just top or middle pair there would be considered a HERO CALL, because it is clear that the person is representing the flush and you just flat out do not believe them. That is basically it, whether they are representing a flush a straight, 2 pair, or an over pair, you are basically going straight off of instincts and calling because you think they are bluffing a well constructed bluff. If someone does a stupid bluff and doesnt represent the hand correctly i would just call it a good read, but when they raise to represent a certain hand and you can just put them on a bluff then that is a HERO CALL. Thats the best definition i can give you. Good luck at the tables and dont try too many hero calls. They can basically only be made against really good players by really great players. Ive only had a handfull in my life but you will definitely remember them when they come! And ive been playing 10 plus years so.. they are hard to come by lol.
 
debriz

debriz

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Here is a good hero call of mine, fairly recent.

BTN: 29.2 BB (VPIP: 14.29, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 75)
SB: 38.68 BB (VPIP: 10.53, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 149)
BB: 17.65 BB (VPIP: 26.32, PFR: 15.79, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 192)
UTG: 52.6 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 625)
UTG+1: 115.85 BB (VPIP: 23.53, PFR: 11.76, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 134)
MP: 40.33 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 22.22, 3Bet Preflop: 18.18, Hands: 1258)
Hero (MP+1): 76.12 BB
CO: 64.25 BB (VPIP: 15.79, PFR: 5.56, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 19)

8 players post ante of 0.1 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.3 BB) Hero has Ac Th
fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.18 BB, fold, fold, fold, BB calls 1.18 BB

Flop : (5.65 BB, 2 players) 5s 8c 4s
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn : (5.65 BB, 2 players) 5c
BB bets 2.83 BB, Hero calls 2.83 BB

River : (11.3 BB, 2 players) 3s
BB bets 12.55 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 12.55 BB

Hero shows Ac Th (One Pair, Fives)
(Pre 71%, Flop 66%, Turn 77%)

BB shows 6s Ad (One Pair, Fives)
(Pre 29%, Flop 34%, Turn 23%)

Hero wins 36.39 BB

With Ace high, I beat only bluffs.

It wasn't for my tournament life, but it was for his.
Here's why I justified a call:
What hands is he doing this with would he shove a 5 to basically get no value, I've seen this player play his super strong hands, and all of which were bet pretty small on the river to get value.
I he going to shove a any 8 X or 4 X ?? Would he play a set this way on the flop? Would he play a draw this way? If the story doesnt make sense, you call ~sometimes~ and fold sometimes to play GTO. Because a lot of times in this situation, unless your facing a very good reg, people dont shove the river without at least a very good hand?

Here is a MUCH better example of a good bluff catch.

I had another one (I cannot find) where somebody check raised on Js Ts 3h flop. And I had AJ. Turn comes Brick (no spade) he leads smaller than his check raise, a lot of the times meaning he may be drawing. I call, River another Brick , no possible flushes got the and no straights got there (basically none of the draws got there. He goes all in for just over the pot, putting me nearly all in.
So I have to think, what is he doing this with for value and what is he doing this with as a bluff... Value hands: TT, JJ he probably would have 3 bet, especially at our stack depth ( 25-30ish BB). So that leaves 33 and JT and ocasionally hands that were bluffs that may have turned to 2 pair on the turn or river. Which is only a small combination of hands.
What about his bluffs on the river? KQ, Q9, 98 (sometimes) and possiblyQ8, K9 etc.., A lot of 2 spade cards (some with combo draws), and finally some worse hands he may be turning into bluffs like J9, T9, 99, QT. Also, some STONE COLD BLUFFS (but you wont see that too too often).

So lets see, how many of these hands are we losing to, and how many hands are we beating out of the amount that makes sense. Lets say hypothetically we beat his hand 80% of the time in this scenario, and if you play game theory optimal, you should probably call this shove 80% of the time and fold the other 20%. It may seem weird, but that is what I would characterize as a good bluff catch. I dont think a good bluff catch ever means getting Q X to showdown on a A K Q 9 8 board.

I hope this helps

Thank you Sir, it really gives me more info. about a hero call especially the first example, now I know how to analize and read about the bluffer's betting history. In the second one, if your playing online especially you have no time bank left, making a final decision asap to make a call was tough.
 
luizmarinho

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Here is a good hero call of mine, fairly recent.

BTN: 29.2 BB (VPIP: 14.29, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 75)
SB: 38.68 BB (VPIP: 10.53, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 149)
BB: 17.65 BB (VPIP: 26.32, PFR: 15.79, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 192)
UTG: 52.6 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 625)
UTG+1: 115.85 BB (VPIP: 23.53, PFR: 11.76, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 134)
MP: 40.33 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 22.22, 3Bet Preflop: 18.18, Hands: 1258)
Hero (MP+1): 76.12 BB
CO: 64.25 BB (VPIP: 15.79, PFR: 5.56, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 19)

8 players post ante of 0.1 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.3 BB) Hero has Ac Th
fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 2.18 BB, fold, fold, fold, BB calls 1.18 BB

Flop : (5.65 BB, 2 players) 5s 8c 4s
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn : (5.65 BB, 2 players) 5c
BB bets 2.83 BB, Hero calls 2.83 BB

River : (11.3 BB, 2 players) 3s
BB bets 12.55 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 12.55 BB

Hero shows Ac Th (One Pair, Fives)
(Pre 71%, Flop 66%, Turn 77%)

BB shows 6s Ad (One Pair, Fives)
(Pre 29%, Flop 34%, Turn 23%)

Hero wins 36.39 BB

With Ace high, I beat only bluffs.

It wasn't for my tournament life, but it was for his.
Here's why I justified a call:
What hands is he doing this with would he shove a 5 to basically get no value, I've seen this player play his super strong hands, and all of which were bet pretty small on the river to get value.
I he going to shove a any 8 X or 4 X ?? Would he play a set this way on the flop? Would he play a draw this way? If the story doesnt make sense, you call ~sometimes~ and fold sometimes to play GTO. Because a lot of times in this situation, unless your facing a very good reg, people dont shove the river without at least a very good hand?

Here is a MUCH better example of a good bluff catch.

Thas was a splendid call :icon_blac
 
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