Here is the situation !

84ofspadesallin

84ofspadesallin

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We have 10 big blinds and are well into the red or danger zone or whatever people often like to call it.

we are utg and have KJ offsuit or A10 offsuit.

What to do ? do we just jam because it seems obvious ?

Are there times when we listen to our gut and fold and get AA the next hand and double up ? or is this totally wrong because it deviates from normal strategy and percentages that are key and needed to win ?


good luck and positive energy / vibes.
 
ribaric

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I hate cards like this in early position i ussually fold them but if you have small stack you can jam or just raise.
 
Propane Goat

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A lot depends on the situation, at a 4- or 5-handed table with 10BB this is a great place to shove. Full table, probably a fold, you are usually going to be behind if you get a call.

I'm not a fan of raising UTG with hands like those, because a c-bet pot commits you if you get callers and see a missed flop.
 
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guch

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It also depends how far are we from the money and whats our goal just to min cash or chase 1st prize. You can profitable shove if table on tighter side ,it also wouldnt be a big mistake most of the time you will have about 40% vs callers range.
 
teepack

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10 BBs? Too soon to panic. Fold 'em and wait for something better. Now if you are the button and it folds to you with KJ then I think it would be reasonable to shove, or at least bet 4 BBs and be ready to call a re-raise.
 
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ph_il

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10 BBs? Too soon to panic. Fold 'em and wait for something better. Now if you are the button and it folds to you with KJ then I think it would be reasonable to shove, or at least bet 4 BBs and be ready to call a re-raise.
what's the point of raising 40% of your stack just to call a raise? You're committing your self already with the 4x raise, so just shove it in.
 
teepack

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If you are bluffing yes shove. But if you got something good you can try to induce a call.
 
PershingSt

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I think table conditions will decide this most of the time for me and how quickly the blinds go up . Are we close to the end of a level ? If the table is tight and we can pick up a large chunk to add to our stack then shoving here is fine . If the table has been really call happy and willing to gamble then just fold and wait for a better spot in later position or find a later position raise to shove over .
 
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KQs can also be consider in this situation.
 
Last edited:
rastapapolos

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if you have KJo and Axo utg fold'em (push AKo/ AQo) . push from the co, bu with any two. you can check some charts of push/fold on the internet. hint "nash equilibrium push fold chart"
 
TeUnit

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not a fan of the the utg shove, especially if you can find a better place

shoving utg without a hand means you have to go through the whole table

maybe shove earlier, or maybe wait for a knit to shove on
 
84ofspadesallin

84ofspadesallin

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I jam the two hands!!!!


So do i, but only considering most of the situations I am in in online tournaments are turbo or similar and the blinds increase fast, not to mention a lot of freerolls and other tournaments only pay out 2% of the field.

It is situational with these hands I guess, and I think ive described a few situations where jamming these 2 hands utg would not be an extremely bad idea.
 
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My input.

I like to read the cards before betting. have there been kings or aces on board. I think its to early to bet those.
 
micalupagoo

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lots of opinions, and some with good merit...
Ive done some great shortstack comebacks,
but have also learned to not blind down and sometimes you have to shove with mediocre hands,
I myself would wait for a better hand,
or moreso, a better position

UTG you will have players with pockets, Ax, or basically hands that just dominate you, or the bigstack with any two cards and some luck...
Id use position and wait for a spot to shove even weaker hands vs the right players/ steal blinds etc

never understood the logic behind
'Ive got 10BB, shove any ace, face, pocket...'
I think position, players, stack sizes... still a factor to consider
 
micalupagoo

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I like to read the cards before betting. have there been kings or aces on board. I think its to early to bet those.

at 10 big blinds deeper in a game,
you should play shove or fold only,
like mentioned above, 5 BBs will get called with a very loose range
 
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When you are in a push / fold situation there is an Ax rule that you can apply and it goes : If the card x is bigger than the number of players remaining to act behind you than you are in an ok place to shove. You will be behind sometimes ofcourse but i found it to be reliable on most ocasions.
 
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ph_il

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I like to read the cards before betting. have there been kings or aces on board. I think its to early to bet those.
What? Aces, kings, or any card showing up on the board prior to this have nothing to do with whether or not you should shove 10BBs.

Are you telling me if you had KK UTG with 10BBs and there have been a ton of aces showing on flop, you'd rather fold?

---

I realized I never answered OP's question. With 10BBs and UTG, I think I'm shoving KJ+ A10+, 88+, and hoping it goes well. UTG is a tricky spot, but I think I'd shove and hope we run into a hand we're not too far behind in a 60/40 or 50/50 situation. Also, if we have a tight image, shoving UTG is usually a good sign of strength, so we might get players to fold hands like A/Xs that we're slightly behind with a hand like KJ, and we really force them to have a hand worth calling.

I think with 10BBs, I'd rather take my chances with a shove rather than fold and lose more chips before I decide to shove.
 
Last edited:
Vadim Kudimov

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I think that such a cards to play through a check-raise. I rarely play such pairs out of position.
 
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UncleConRon

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My input.

Mule you can kind of know when ace ace or slick come after ace ten or king ten. If you haven't had high hand in a while it best to play it. If you have had high hand in a while go for the next hand. That means counting your low cards that would of had high too. Even though you didn't bet. Counting like this helps too. King jack in hole hasn't hit in 4 times bet king jack. if ace ten has hit recently fold it. Watch your hole cards individually.
 
Marcwantstowin

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lots of opinions, and some with good merit...
Ive done some great shortstack comebacks,
but have also learned to not blind down and sometimes you have to shove with mediocre hands,
I myself would wait for a better hand,
or moreso, a better position

UTG you will have players with pockets, Ax, or basically hands that just dominate you, or the bigstack with any two cards and some luck...
Id use position and wait for a spot to shove even weaker hands vs the right players/ steal blinds etc

never understood the logic behind
'Ive got 10BB, shove any ace, face, pocket...'
I think position, players, stack sizes... still a factor to consider


I dont think you will get better advice than this above !! Other things to consider as well are.............How close is the money? Are you on the bubble? What sort of feeling do you get from your opponents? Are they tight or lags?

I have played quite a few hyper-turbo tourneys and these generally have a shove or fold mode from the off ~ they are good practise for your question. I would advise playing a few ~ say 10K or so might help.......Gl :D:D:D
 
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Angelo3

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We have 10 big blinds and are well into the red or danger zone or whatever people often like to call it.

we are utg and have KJ offsuit or A10 offsuit.

What to do ? do we just jam because it seems obvious ?

Are there times when we listen to our gut and fold and get AA the next hand and double up ? or is this totally wrong because it deviates from normal strategy and percentages that are key and needed to win ?


good luck and positive energy / vibes.

I dont like the cards but with 10 bb its shove or fold.
 
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