Help with getting stacks on MTT

SillentHunterZ

SillentHunterZ

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I often see in first 5 min people have 10x starting chips. I know there are people who do all in on first hand and get lucky but often i see that i am stuck on 1.5x from start and they have 10x. How to improve my stack collecting? I usually play normal hand range 15-20% shall i go more aggressively?
 
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caracaski220

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caracaski220

alot of times, the are losse agresive players or just carzzies who luck out , runner runner flushes with 5 7 off or runner runner staights. Pay no attention to that . Play your game . Build up a stack with patience and good play. Of course allways be the aggresor. Then bully the table.
 
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fundiver199

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If you pay attention, you will notice, that when you get near the money or the final table, often these players are either gone or have moved significantly down the ranks. You can not win a tournament in the first 10 minutes, but you can bust.
 
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DaytonaVid

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From my observations of SnG's I agree with fundiver199. Those first few hands are pretty wild. I much prefer to start playing my game once the maniacs have been identified. The times I've lost with Aces or Kings on that first deal...
 
thehangdude

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It is best not to look at rankings, but if you must watch average stack. As long as you keep yourself near average, you are in a position to win the game.

MTTs are a marathon. Have you ever watched the guy that sets the initial pace in a marathon? He always falters. Winners set a steady pace, and take advantage of opportunities that come their way.

At some point in the mtt you will have a run of good cards. Would you rather have them at the beginning, or near the bubble? Either way, recognize the time and take advantage.
 
SillentHunterZ

SillentHunterZ

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It is best not to look at rankings, but if you must watch average stack. As long as you keep yourself near average, you are in a position to win the game.

MTTs are a marathon. Have you ever watched the guy that sets the initial pace in a marathon? He always falters. Winners set a steady pace, and take advantage of opportunities that come their way.

At some point in the mtt you will have a run of good cards. Would you rather have them at the beginning, or near the bubble? Either way, recognize the time and take advantage.
Problem is even after 30 min i still struggle, i don't get the right cards to push till the river or showdown, happens that i don\t get premium hand not even after 30 min so my option is to wider my hand range, sometimes i get lucky with few hands and when i have good amount of stacks i can harras but until then i get harrased.
 
thehangdude

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Try a starting range chart for a few tournaments. Here is one I sometimes use.

UTG - JJ+, AKo, AQs
+3 - 99+, AQo, AJs
MP - 77+, ATo, A8s, KQ
LP - 55+, A7o Axs, QJo, 78s

Always come in with a raise, and usually the same size. 2.5X is usually good. Don't limp unless you are Button or Blinds with limpers behind you.

Continuation bet often. When you raise first, people think you have a good hand, so pretend you do even when you don't. I like 1/2 pot Cbet. This makes it hard for villain to call the 2 out of 3 times they miss the board. These little pots won on the flop add up. When villain calls, try to narrow their range. Are they chasing, or do they have a good pair or maybe trips.

When you raise PF, don't marry your hand. Folding a bad flop can save you three streets of bets. Don't chase unless the math is good. Watch the table for the calling stations and the aggressive players. NEVER bluff the first, and let the aggressive players take the lead. They often bury themselves.

Most importantly in mtt is an under 20BB strategy. You will be there almost every tourney. You need to know when to shove (position matters), when to call (only with premiums), and when to fold (most times). A good <20BB strategy is absolutely vital.

It is frustrating to sit for an hour without a good starting hand, but know that the QTs will not win from UTG, ever. Just keep saying, "My next hand might be AA. I need to save my chips for that hand."
 
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BIGAUS

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As others have stated, definitely have to view a MTT as a marathon, not a sprint. Find the moments to best raise your chip stack, don't worry about others progress in the standings, especially if they're not at the same table as you and don't have a direct impact on your game.
 
SillentHunterZ

SillentHunterZ

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Try a starting range chart for a few tournaments. Here is one I sometimes use.

UTG - JJ+, AKo, AQs
+3 - 99+, AQo, AJs
MP - 77+, ATo, A8s, KQ
LP - 55+, A7o Axs, QJo, 78s

Always come in with a raise, and usually the same size. 2.5X is usually good. Don't limp unless you are Button or Blinds with limpers behind you.

Continuation bet often. When you raise first, people think you have a good hand, so pretend you do even when you don't. I like 1/2 pot Cbet. This makes it hard for villain to call the 2 out of 3 times they miss the board. These little pots won on the flop add up. When villain calls, try to narrow their range. Are they chasing, or do they have a good pair or maybe trips.

When you raise PF, don't marry your hand. Folding a bad flop can save you three streets of bets. Don't chase unless the math is good. Watch the table for the calling stations and the aggressive players. NEVER bluff the first, and let the aggressive players take the lead. They often bury themselves.

Most importantly in mtt is an under 20BB strategy. You will be there almost every tourney. You need to know when to shove (position matters), when to call (only with premiums), and when to fold (most times). A good <20BB strategy is absolutely vital.

It is frustrating to sit for an hour without a good starting hand, but know that the QTs will not win from UTG, ever. Just keep saying, "My next hand might be AA. I need to save my chips for that hand."
Basically the range is what i follow, i limp here and there on LP if i have suited cards.
I am getting frustrated when i get pocket QQ KK AA and everyone folds even before i get chance to act [emoji1787]
 
SillentHunterZ

SillentHunterZ

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As others have stated, definitely have to view a MTT as a marathon, not a sprint. Find the moments to best raise your chip stack, don't worry about others progress in the standings, especially if they're not at the same table as you and don't have a direct impact on your game.
I am not looking on mtt as sprint, problem is if I don't run fast enough i fall behind and eaten by blinds.
 
DougPkrMonsta

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There is nothing wrong with opening up your game early on and putting yourself in more spots to increase your stack volatility.

Playing more suited connectors and small pairs are most effective against tight players who over-value their big pocket pairs.

Balancing risk is the tricky part, but you can invest small amounts of your stack to win big amounts and there is clearly value to be had.

Having more chips isn't going to win you the tournament, but you will have more cushion if/when you take a bad beat or lose a coinflip. If you get good at building a stack early it may save some buyins and help you to make more deep runs.

Things rarely work out perfectly so you will still need to be familiar with short stack play and push/fold ranges as this is the lifeblood of tournaments.

Good luck!
 
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Delfino

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Problem is even after 30 min i still struggle, i don't get the right cards to push till the river or showdown, happens that i don\t get premium hand not even after 30 min so my option is to wider my hand range, sometimes i get lucky with few hands and when i have good amount of stacks i can harras but until then i get harrased.

Online tournaments go faster than real life so you need to play more agressively. But on the other hand don't play too loose. You can't win every tournament. You will need to get some premium cards sometimes and you will need to win some coinflips. You also don't need 10x times initial stack immediately. If you manage to keep your stack around average after 2-3 hours you will find thay you already have 10 times what you had at the beginning.

So it's natural. Don't worry.
 
venycyos

venycyos

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The best thing you have to do is not to look at the pile of maniacs, just look at their behavior and try to take advantage of them. There is no need for a premium hand against them, sometimes we will lose to them, but we will win much more.
 
thehangdude

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Basically the range is what i follow, i limp here and there on LP if i have suited cards.
I am getting frustrated when i get pocket QQ KK AA and everyone folds even before i get chance to act [emoji1787]
I was in a tournament last week when I got AA twice in the big blind late in the game. I'm talking final two tables late. Both times, the table folded around to me.

It is best not to limp small pairs and suited connectors like 67s. Fold or min raise so villains can't narrow your range. Then when you hit the nuts, you have a better chance of doubling up or even taking their whole stack. when someone limps to me, I usually put them on an Axs, suited connectors like 68s, or a little pair. I can eliminate a lot of their range like 99+, AT+, and even most Broadways. That makes any face card a good place to donk bet or check/raise from the blinds.

MTTs have long stretches of folding with short bursts of adrenaline filled fun. If you have patience and play fundamental poker, you will find yourself cashing in as many as 25% of the games you enter (this is my current rate).
 
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