Folding overpairs

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natelearnspoker

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Was on the bubble with aces and I raised UTG 2.7x both SB and BB call. Flop is dry with a K - I figured I was good so I c bet half pot. BB called and on the turn a 10 came out so still fine. I bet half pot again and villain raises to around half my stack. There were two flush draws on the board and I blocked one of them so I figured I was ahead and jammed for value. Villain flips over pocket 2s for bottom set so I go from a large stack to out on the bubble.

I know turn raises tend to be strong but how do you fold an overpair like aces when you block the nut flush? Not sure if jamming on the turn was correct.
 
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gryphon3005

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You leave out a lot of information in describing the hand. Going with what you've given us I would answer your question by saying it wasn't about folding an over pair. It was about you comparing your two cards to the board and deciding to gamble your tournament life on the bubble without considering why the other player was still in the pot. You were on the bubble where players tend to be a little cautious. Your opponent called your standard raise pre-flop...nothing of concern here. After the flop you bet half pot. Since this bet size wouldn't drive out a lot of hands I assume you thought you were already value betting. When he called what could he have? He would certainly have KT+ in his range so his call of your c-bet was understandable. But now you bet the turn and her raises you. This is when the alarm bells should have gone off. Would he raise your half pot bets with a solo K or a solo T? Not likely. You had to realize you were facing at least a 2 pair hand yet you jammed for value? That's not betting for value. That's gambling your bet will push your opponent off his hand. But your preflop raise followed by two half pot bets should have accomplished that and it didn't.

You don't provide any info on stack sizes of what you thought about your opponent so we don't know if his betting pattern was unusual but I'm guessing his turn re-raise was not something he had done before. It's tough to look at those lovely aces and then realize the other guy is setting you up but when you've lost a few more big pair hands like we all have you might just slow down next time.
 
italorohdrigues

italorohdrigues

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I agree with gryphon

Its never easy to fold pocket aces, but you got to give this a lot of thought before taking this risk, especially this being the bouble, is this situation he is potting you in danger because he has a bigger stack, but that doesn't mean he's going to be agressive like that without a strong hand.

What hands are you beating there? Unless I have info saying otherwise I don't think he would do that with with KQ, KJ, QQ, JJ- you're blocking AK bc you have AA, KT can make certanly put pressure on you there, KK is eating you alive and the sets like he had, if you don't have info don't assume he's an idiot

When you think he's on a flush draw and you jam on him is a good move because most times you will win and you have fold equity as well, but with a re-raise of half or stack he's not thinking about folding there and for me it does not make too much sense for him to raise instead of calling when on a draw
 
SharKyg1n

SharKyg1n

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I still haven't learned how to throw overpairs on dry boards and of course I always look at two pair or a set
 
Collin Moshman

Collin Moshman

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Generally you should go with overpairs in spots like these.

The main times to fold are when:

** Stacks are deep;

** Your opponent is tight/passive (and you have a strong read)

But usually you'll get shown worse one-pair hands, particularly against less experienced players who overvalue hands like top pair when stacks are deep.
 
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karl coakley

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The bottom line is you put in all your chips with 1 pair, usually not a winner. You simply over played your hand.

Before you put in all your chips in when playing a tournament you have to slow down for a minute and ask what do I beat?

When the SB called I'm priced in with just about any 2 cards in the BB. The villain range could be huge.

You also are under the incorrect assumption that you block a flush draw. If there are 2 flush draws that means both are live because you don't have suited AA. If 1 of the villains hit a flush would you win? The only way AA blocks a flush draw is if there is 3 to a flush on the board.

This hand got away from you.

When you weren't controlling the pot against 2 villains, I would have thought I was beat. I wouldn't have wanted to risk more than 1/4 of my stack and would find a different hand.
 
theANMATOR

theANMATOR

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Don't sweat it bud. Sets and rag 2 pairs are impossible to see.
My AAs have been getting walloped by donkey 2 pair luck for the past 2 weeks. With bb defending so wide K/7o, J/3s - nobody - not even the best hand reader can see those two pairs. Also 44s, 22s, 66s, nailing bottom set from late position is the best hidden hand ever imo. They always stack me - cause I put the opponent on a draw or weak top pair.
Often jamming is incorrect - but I have yet to be able to see when my rockets are beat - unless the pot is multiway - and the flop is some obvious killer, like KQ66J 4 spades and I'm holding 2 red aces. lol
 
takinitSLEAZEE

takinitSLEAZEE

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Actually I think it's quite telling when you get 2 callers and one of them 3-bets u from the flop. That sinking feeling in your chest should tell u you're beat. That's how you know. ;)
 
theANMATOR

theANMATOR

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Actually I think it's quite telling when you get 2 callers and one of them 3-bets u from the flop. That sinking feeling in your chest should tell u you're beat. That's how you know. ;)

Just as many players re-raise top pair on the flop - so how telling is it really? You can tell when a player re-raises top pair vs a player who re-raises bottom set? don't think so.
 
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