Final Table Blues

CDNMAN 42

CDNMAN 42

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I guess my strategy needs adjustment, lately I have been doing well at MTT with Micro buy ins, however, invariably I get to the Final table and am ITM but get knocked out regularly with QQ, TT, etc., Normally I play fairly tight but Aggressive, when I have it, should my strategy be different for FT?:):):)
 
Luvepoker

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I guess my strategy needs adjustment, lately I have been doing well at MTT with Micro buy ins, however, invariably I get to the Final table and am ITM but get knocked out regularly with QQ, TT, etc., Normally I play fairly tight but Aggressive, when I have it, should my strategy be different for FT?:):):)

At the final table there is no issue with going out with the hands your playing. The thing you need to learn is ICM. If your the short stack at the table there is really nothing to worry about. If there are some very small stacks at the table you will need to adjust your play.

Lets say you have the 6th biggest stack at the table of 9 but are very close to the 3-5th size stacks. Blinds are 5K/10K and you stack is 250,000. the 7th 8th and 9th place stacks are at 25,000 and will hit the blinds before you will starting next hand. . 9th gets $124, 8th gets $170 and 7th gets $240 and 6th gets 325 and 5th get 485. You look down at your pocket tens and raise to 22,500. The chip leader raised all in. He has done this the last 10 hands in a row and you know your more likely than no getting bluffed. In this situation and he has shown a few of the trash hands he did it with. In this situation tens are an easy fold. You are an easy lock to win a extra $200.00 without playing a hand here. To call and lose to 53o would be sick but it would cost you $200.00. While I would not fold queens here, you actually need to think about it. I would suggest looking into ICM for this. It changed my thinking a lot and I became more profitable after studying it.
 
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fundiver199

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As Luvepoker say "going out with TT or QQ" is a very incomplete story, which does not really tell, what happened. What was the effective stack size, what was your stack size relative to other players, what was the action, what was the position of the players involved, was there multiway action and so on and so forth.

Obviously setups like AK against QQ for 20BB effective happen at the final table as well as everywhere else in an MTT, and no neither hand should typically fold. But push-fold ranges can be quite affected by the ICM-considerations, and sometimes you do need to call off tighter, than you might think. You can learn and improve a lot by analysing final table situations in ICMizer.

And there are also other situations, where ICM considerations should lead you to take a lower variance line. Like maybe not 3-betting against a big stack, if several players are much shorter than you. Checking back the turn for pot control. Refraining from a light valuebet on the river to not reopen the betting.

There is no problem in finishing in 8. place, if you were one of the shortest stacks, when the final table began. But if this consistently happen, even when you were an average or above average stack, you might be taking to many risks at the beginning of the final table.
 
Pokerstudy

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Getting to the ‘Final table’ is a fake bubble - who cares about the final table. The payout is not that big of a difference, final table is a mirage to care about. Go with your reads and strategy and play optimal poker and stop caring about the final table, it’s for the birds.
(And in this case for poker ‘the railbirds’ lol)

My goal isn’t placement, it’s to make money.

Throw your GTO charts away (and in your mind) at or near the FT and play strong hands. Go with your instinct and don’t pass up on large pairs at FT, ever. You simply can’t wait for premium hands at the final table, if you have strength you need to be aggressive.
And for FS don’t trap (or try to) with AA or KK or QQ at FT, don’t give draws a chance (make them pay costly for their draws. Never trap. Take that ish down and take pots.

Yes stack sizes matter, but you are down to the showdown at final table, you simply can’t pass up on high pairs or you will be blinded out looking for something better.
 
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Lucky River

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at the final tables, I always play aggressively if I have the chip leader stack.
 
mariale_1990

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It is a bit complicated, but in my case it depends on how my game has been throughout the tournament and how many chips I have, how the rest of the players are playing and depending on whether I play tight or aggressive, there are few times that I play aggressive in a final table and in those few times it has been because I have a lot of chips, I have done well during the tournament etc, I do not think you should make a very drastic change in your game just to lose with high pairs
 
Psyanide14

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I just need to find some luck at the final tables. I’ve now lost at the final table three times in a row with AA to finish 9th. I mean ICM or whatever you can’t fold AA. The worst part is that every time I’ve been up against Axo which gives me over 90% to win. Twice they’ve made three of a kind and the other was runner runner straight with AQo. I don’t mind busting but to keep doing it this way when it takes me so long to reach a final table is very frustrating. I guess I gotta start folding them AA.

But back to the question (sorry I just busted as above and ranting a bit). I don’t think you are doing anything wrong, keep playing the tight aggressive approach and hope the cards hold. You do need to look at the other stack sizes though and if someone is close to busting and you have a marginal premium hand like TT and you have to go all in to call, I would fold. Each pay jump at a final table is much more significant than anywhere else but you really want the top 3 so you don’t want to go all in if your say top 5 in chips against someone who covers you but if it’s against a short stack pressure them. I think I’m still rambling too much as stilled pissed. Good luck.
 
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fundiver199

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Getting to the ‘Final table’ is a fake bubble - who cares about the final table.

This is also a good point. If we make it to the final table but with only a third of the average stack, this is not particularly different from going out in 10. to 12. place. We are probably going to finish 8. or 9. anyway, which typically give only a marginally higher payout. So all, it gives us, is the right to say "I made it to the final table".

Which might matter in the wsop main event, because it gives us TV time, if we are a professional player. But online its a false achievement, which we should not get hung up open. The main goal, if we made it as far as the last two tables, is top 3, and we should not be scared to take calculated risks to reach that goal.
 
Pokerstudy

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This is also a good point. If we make it to the final table but with only a third of the average stack, this is not particularly different from going out in 10. to 12. place. We are probably going to finish 8. or 9. anyway, which typically give only a marginally higher payout. So all, it gives us, is the right to say "I made it to the final table".

Which might matter in the WSOP main event, because it gives us TV time, if we are a professional player. But online its a false achievement, which we should not get hung up open. The main goal, if we made it as far as the last two tables, is top 3, and we should not be scared to take calculated risks to reach that goal.
Totally, I learned that from Johnathan Little’s book “How to beat tough no limit games”, that book is amazing! Best poker book I have read so far
 
Syltan

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At the final table, the pressure from ICM is getting very strong, maybe you should play even tighter.
 
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BIGAUS

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A lot of good final table advice from people who've already replied. I too have been running into micro stakes final table blues of being an early exit as soon as the final table comes together. But it's often because I come in a short stack, so my options are limited and playing premium hands get outflopped. But sticking to a TAG mindset is usually the best way to go.
 
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valetgll

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I once managed to get to the last table. We even managed to take 1st place. Since I got to the last table for the first time, I played very carefully and carefully selected the card. Maybe that's why she played well.
 
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MakTrue

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I guess my strategy needs adjustment, lately I have been doing well at MTT with Micro buy ins, however, invariably I get to the Final table and am ITM but get knocked out regularly with QQ, TT, etc., Normally I play fairly tight but Aggressive, when I have it, should my strategy be different for FT?:):):)


Good day! I think the final table should be played very carefully. Yes, you can push if you are a big chip leader, but don't overdo it, play on the map and everything will be fine!:):):)
 
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donpiatnik

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I guess my strategy needs adjustment, lately I have been doing well at MTT with Micro buy ins, however, invariably I get to the Final table and am ITM but get knocked out regularly with QQ, TT, etc., Normally I play fairly tight but Aggressive, when I have it, should my strategy be different for FT?:):):)


it is difficult to give advice because you always have to adapt to your opponents depending on the amount of chips.
 
CDNMAN 42

CDNMAN 42

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Final Table

Thanks for all the reply and advice, I guess FT is just another way to say ITM, I think my main strategy is TAG, but a willingness to fold TT or less and AQo or less against all inners:):):)
 
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