An Explanation???

Luvepoker

Luvepoker

Lost in the twilight zone
Community Guide
Joined
Feb 21, 2018
Total posts
3,602
Awards
21
US
I'm sure there must be some reason the villain in this hand would call my large Pre flop raise and then would go all in post flop yet of course my Premium Hand did not hold up...

https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/9q16CxUK

:):):)

It moment like this that drive us all nuts. while the result was not what you wanted you got what you really wanted. A bad call pre flop and a shove when you had the best of it. While you and I will never get why he did it you got it in good and that all you want. Most days you get the double up and today you just got the shaft.
 
phoenixKK

phoenixKK

Rock Star
Joined
Jun 28, 2021
Total posts
126
That was a bad beat! another jack on the turn Oh my God!your kings didn't hold up. Unfortunately the cards punish sometimes.
 
CDNMAN 42

CDNMAN 42

Visionary
Joined
Feb 1, 2017
Total posts
591
Awards
10
Punisnment

That was a bad beat! another jack on the turn Oh my God!your kings didn't hold up. Unfortunately the cards punish sometimes.



Not only do the cards punish sometimes, I have been experiencing this thing continuously since. January, playing multiple tournaments every day and since 2021 have not even been in the money.:):):)
 
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
10,283
Awards
1
Not everyone have the same reasons for playing poker. Some just want to have fun. Chase some draws, bust someone with an overpair, catch a bluff or maybe pull off a big bluff themselfes. These players are not studying poker theory and looking to improve their game, and this is why, they do many things, which are not good strategy. Like limping behind with JTo and then calling a big raise out of position. Or donk jamming for more than the full size of the pot, when they flop top pair medium kicker.

But here is the thing. Are you ever complaining about poor play, when you win the hand? Most people dont. And for that reason posts like this one are not only results oriented. They also mean, that you have some issues in your own mental game. You suffer from entitlement tilt, and this might actually be holding you back from experiencing the kind of results, you potentially could. We can all find a million hands like this, where someone took a questionable line and then got lucky against us. But we dont all share those hands to poker forums, because some of us know, there is nothing at all to be learned from them.
 
P

ph_il

...
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Total posts
9,845
Awards
1
Stop trying to analyze bad players because it gets you nowhere.

Why did the call off my big preflop raise? Who cares. You have kings. Be happy they did and didn't fold.

Why did they jam flop? Who cares? You're calling it off and getting paid.

Why did they win? Variance, but who cares? You make the exact same call 100% of the time and win most of the time.

At any point in this hand is an explanation needed? Would knowing why your opponent called or jammed there affect how you would play this scenario over again? I would certainly hope not unless you say something to the tune of "I fist-pump, snap-call a lot faster".
 
mina271

mina271

Legend
Joined
Aug 23, 2016
Total posts
1,157
Awards
3
DE
I didn't really understand the question. What did you want to know why the caller called your raise and why your KK didn't hold?
I'm sorry, I don't have an answer, at least not a correct one. why is he calling? Well, as someone said before, not everyone plays because they want to improve their game or have the faintest idea how to play poker, so they play with everything and hope for the best. why your KK didn't hold up? I'm sorry but I have to laugh because I used to ask that when my AA lost to crap or when I lost my str on river to fl and when I .... yes the list goes on lol. It doesn't matter why you lost, the only thing that matters is that you played right and if you continue to play correctly it will pay off in the long run. Somebody once said to me that poker is not a wish concert, it is hard work and sometimes the work pays off and sometimes it doesn't.
 
puzzlefish

puzzlefish

Zero fold equity always
Loyaler
Joined
Feb 18, 2018
Total posts
2,830
Awards
1
CA
I'm sure there must be some reason the villain in this hand would call my large Pre flop raise and then would go all in post flop yet of course my Premium Hand did not hold up...

https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/9q16CxUK

:):):)
He probably hoped you had AK or a lower pair. Some players just play like this. They hit top pair and think they are good to go.

I looked this player up and they haven't had any game activity since 2010? What is up with that? Edit: nevermind, WPN not Stars.
 
Last edited:
TeUnit

TeUnit

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Total posts
3,728
Awards
12
That shows you that the games are still really good. Do not waste a second of your time on this, you are just that much closer to the sunny side of variance.
 
J

JimTheBadger

Rock Star
Joined
Jan 28, 2021
Total posts
100
Pre flop bet sizing to big. At those stack depth I'd go with 2x sizing and 1bb for every preflop flatter for your entire range. You're sizing screws with the SPR on the flop so the jam by Vill isn't that bad and you're priced to call.

Smaller bet sizing pre could of given you more options on how the hand played out. Vill can check giving the option back to you where you can opt for smaller sizing or go big. Smaller sizing on flop would have given you a chance to find a fold on turn as board is smashing Vill's range.
 
AKQ

AKQ

Legend
Joined
May 27, 2007
Total posts
7,163
Awards
6
you did good!!!

go do it again!!!

explanation
he put you on ace queen +
and shoved because welll you know thats what people do

sometimes your'e just a

 
Last edited by a moderator:
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
10,283
Awards
1
the only thing that matters is that you played right and if you continue to play correctly it will pay off in the long run.

Exactly. In this hand hero made two decisions. The first was to isolate the limpers preflop, which I would clearly also do. I also think, the sizing is fine in a soft game like a freeroll, where people will make a lot of bad calls. The second decision was facing his overbet donk jam on the flop, and yes I am also calling that bet. I beleive, we are way ahead of his range, so I am very happy, he stuck his chips in, and I am literally beating him into the pot. So well played hand by Hero. It did not work out this time, but such is poker, and Hero should just suck it up and register for the next event.
 
Tracid

Tracid

Squirrel Tiger
Community Guide
Joined
May 28, 2016
Total posts
6,348
Awards
6
Heard someone say this the other day and it melted my heart:-

"That's the way the cookie crumples..."

:love:

Think about where your stack would be after running the spot 1,000 times... :wink:
 
R

redmast

Legend
Joined
Jun 12, 2016
Total posts
1,799
Awards
2
How many times have I seen similar cases when another fish calls a raise before another player's flop and gets a card on the flop. As a result, the end of the game is different. Maybe the fish will win.
 
0546474

0546474

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Apr 4, 2016
Total posts
2,167
Awards
14
I think everything is obvious in this hand: the player called, because he is Fish, and won because he was lucky))) Do not worry, you played correctly, this is the most important thing !!!
 
NWPatriot

NWPatriot

Rock Star
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Total posts
480
...Think about where your stack would be after running the spot 1,000 times... :wink:

I am just a poker hack, but I love poker math. Think about these points:

  • In the end the villain made about a pot sized bet (actually ~110% of pot) with top pair. How do you feel about a pot sized bet when you have flopped top pair? Have you ever done this?
  • The fact that it was an all-in is due to the large pre-flop bet (6.4xbb) and the short-ish stacks (25bb stack). I would not call 6.4x pre with a 20% range like he did, but there are a ton of different pre-flop ranges that people rationalize.
  • Playing this out 1000 times is an interesting perspective. Our KK is still just a pair. It has 75-80% equity vs his range or his actual cards. 80% equity is great and I would love to have 80% equity every hand I play. However, If I did, I would find that the actual optimum amount of my stack to risk is only 50-60% in order to have the biggest stack after 1000 of these hands (or 10 hands or 100 hands). We all get enamored with KK and AA, but the math does not tell us that all-in will ever earn us the most chips.
  • A quick GTO solve suggests that villain should have bet only half the pot. But if he did, all the chips were going in anyway when the hero shoves and the villain calls. so betting out with the associated fold equity, may have been his best play.
I personally would have never made it to this flop, and the hero would have won 440 chips pre-flop. I also would have had a hard time letting KK go with such a dry board and no overcards, though I would have preferred to not play such a large pot with only a pair.

Good Luck and God Bless.
 
MAGICUZ

MAGICUZ

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Dec 6, 2018
Total posts
2,596
Awards
1
So that this will not happen in the future,go all-in right away.Just kidding, though why not)))a weak player is just lucky, it happens
 
L

lauestla

Visionary
Joined
Feb 6, 2021
Total posts
606
Awards
3
The reason why he called your raise is a mystery to me.
The reason why he shoved at flop is obvious: he was handling top pair and did not know overpairs do exist ;)
 
P

ph_il

...
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Total posts
9,845
Awards
1
I like the answers above about pre-flop bet sizing. I don;t like teh ones that say "who cares?" I car and I'm pretty sure CdnMan cares. Isn't the whole point to learn frome ach other ratehr thna shoot each other down?
what is there to learn? They got the money in good and lost. What do you need to know about your opponent's play?

Do you need to know why they called prefop? Do you need to why they jammed flop? Would you do anything different in this spot?

Very unlikely not. So, the 'who cares' isn't shooting down op. It's saying to not waste your time on things that don't matter. The time and energy wasted trying to analyze the hand isn't worth it. They got it in good and lost. Oh well, move on. We all know op does the same thing 100% of the time.

If op won, do you think they would be analyzing the play? Probably not. Why? Because it wouldn't matter, it worked out for them. So, why now? Other than being result oriented?
 
C

casique31

Rock Star
Joined
Jul 19, 2018
Total posts
226
If you could see some final tables of the great series of poker, it is not always the one with the best pair in hand who wins. There are definitely cards that you feel like you're winning as soon as you receive them and follow through to the end. Maybe if you had gone with everything in the first instance I would not pay
 
perrywh

perrywh

Legend
Joined
Feb 17, 2018
Total posts
1,621
Awards
6
US
I'm sure there must be some reason the villain in this hand would call my large Pre flop raise and then would go all in post flop yet of course my Premium Hand did not hold up...

https://www.cardschat.com/replayer/9q16CxUK

:):):)
Maybe he felt like you were bullying him so he took a stand. I do that sometime when someone is really aggressive and steals my blinds and pushes me around.
 
CDNMAN 42

CDNMAN 42

Visionary
Joined
Feb 1, 2017
Total posts
591
Awards
10
Bullying?

Maybe he felt like you were bullying him so he took a stand. I do that sometime when someone is really aggressive and steals my blinds and pushes me around.

Well Perry you were there and if you recall I don't bully nor very often bluff:):):)
 
Top