This is a discussion on An Explanation??? within the online poker forums, in the Tournament Poker section; I'm sure there must be some reason the villain in this hand would call my large Pre flop raise and then would go all in
It moment like this that drive us all nuts. while the result was not what you wanted you got what you really wanted. A bad call pre flop and a shove when you had the best of it. While you and I will never get why he did it you got it in good and that all you want. Most days you get the double up and today you just got the shaft.
Not everyone have the same reasons for playing poker. Some just want to have fun. Chase some draws, bust someone with an overpair, catch a bluff or maybe pull off a big bluff themselfes. These players are not studying poker theory and looking to improve their game, and this is why, they do many things, which are not good strategy. Like limping behind with JTo and then calling a big raise out of position. Or donk jamming for more than the full size of the pot, when they flop top pair medium kicker.
But here is the thing. Are you ever complaining about poor play, when you win the hand? Most people dont. And for that reason posts like this one are not only results oriented. They also mean, that you have some issues in your own mental game. You suffer from entitlement tilt, and this might actually be holding you back from experiencing the kind of results, you potentially could. We can all find a million hands like this, where someone took a questionable line and then got lucky against us. But we dont all share those hands to poker forums, because some of us know, there is nothing at all to be learned from them.
Stop trying to analyze bad players because it gets you nowhere.
Why did the call off my big preflop raise? Who cares. You have kings. Be happy they did and didn't fold.
Why did they jam flop? Who cares? You're calling it off and getting paid.
Why did they win? Variance, but who cares? You make the exact same call 100% of the time and win most of the time.
At any point in this hand is an explanation needed? Would knowing why your opponent called or jammed there affect how you would play this scenario over again? I would certainly hope not unless you say something to the tune of "I fist-pump, snap-call a lot faster".
I didn't really understand the question. What did you want to know why the caller called your raise and why your KK didn't hold?
I'm sorry, I don't have an answer, at least not a correct one. why is he calling? Well, as someone said before, not everyone plays because they want to improve their game or have the faintest idea how to play poker, so they play with everything and hope for the best. why your KK didn't hold up? I'm sorry but I have to laugh because I used to ask that when my AA lost to crap or when I lost my str on river to fl and when I .... yes the list goes on lol. It doesn't matter why you lost, the only thing that matters is that you played right and if you continue to play correctly it will pay off in the long run. Somebody once said to me that poker is not a wish concert, it is hard work and sometimes the work pays off and sometimes it doesn't.
Pre flop bet sizing to big. At those stack depth I'd go with 2x sizing and 1bb for every preflop flatter for your entire range. You're sizing screws with the SPR on the flop so the jam by Vill isn't that bad and you're priced to call.
Smaller bet sizing pre could of given you more options on how the hand played out. Vill can check giving the option back to you where you can opt for smaller sizing or go big. Smaller sizing on flop would have given you a chance to find a fold on turn as board is smashing Vill's range.
the only thing that matters is that you played right and if you continue to play correctly it will pay off in the long run.
Exactly. In this hand hero made two decisions. The first was to isolate the limpers preflop, which I would clearly also do. I also think, the sizing is fine in a soft game like a freeroll, where people will make a lot of bad calls. The second decision was facing his overbet donk jam on the flop, and yes I am also calling that bet. I beleive, we are way ahead of his range, so I am very happy, he stuck his chips in, and I am literally beating him into the pot. So well played hand by Hero. It did not work out this time, but such is poker, and Hero should just suck it up and register for the next event.
How many times have I seen similar cases when another fish calls a raise before another player's flop and gets a card on the flop. As a result, the end of the game is different. Maybe the fish will win.
...Think about where your stack would be after running the spot 1,000 times...
I am just a poker hack, but I love poker math. Think about these points:
In the end the villain made about a pot sized bet (actually ~110% of pot) with top pair. How do you feel about a pot sized bet when you have flopped top pair? Have you ever done this?
The fact that it was an all-in is due to the large pre-flop bet (6.4xbb) and the short-ish stacks (25bb stack). I would not call 6.4x pre with a 20% range like he did, but there are a ton of different pre-flop ranges that people rationalize.
Playing this out 1000 times is an interesting perspective. Our KK is still just a pair. It has 75-80% equity vs his range or his actual cards. 80% equity is great and I would love to have 80% equity every hand I play. However, If I did, I would find that the actual optimum amount of my stack to risk is only 50-60% in order to have the biggest stack after 1000 of these hands (or 10 hands or 100 hands). We all get enamored with KK and AA, but the math does not tell us that all-in will ever earn us the most chips.
A quick GTO solve suggests that villain should have bet only half the pot. But if he did, all the chips were going in anyway when the hero shoves and the villain calls. so betting out with the associated fold equity, may have been his best play.
I personally would have never made it to this flop, and the hero would have won 440 chips pre-flop. I also would have had a hard time letting KK go with such a dry board and no overcards, though I would have preferred to not play such a large pot with only a pair.
I like the answers above about pre-flop bet sizing. I don;t like teh ones that say "who cares?" I car and I'm pretty sure CdnMan cares. Isn't the whole point to learn frome ach other ratehr thna shoot each other down?
what is there to learn? They got the money in good and lost. What do you need to know about your opponent's play?
Do you need to know why they called prefop? Do you need to why they jammed flop? Would you do anything different in this spot?
Very unlikely not. So, the 'who cares' isn't shooting down op. It's saying to not waste your time on things that don't matter. The time and energy wasted trying to analyze the hand isn't worth it. They got it in good and lost. Oh well, move on. We all know op does the same thing 100% of the time.
If op won, do you think they would be analyzing the play? Probably not. Why? Because it wouldn't matter, it worked out for them. So, why now? Other than being result oriented?
If you could see some final tables of the great series of poker, it is not always the one with the best pair in hand who wins. There are definitely cards that you feel like you're winning as soon as you receive them and follow through to the end. Maybe if you had gone with everything in the first instance I would not pay