Difficulty

[xexeu]

Good people, I come to ask for the help here of you because I am with a great difficulty of playing against the donkeys of the SNG microlimits. After having several AA and KK broken for 45o 83s I wanted your help on how to behave against those donkeys that pay with any card in hand ..
Another thing I have a lot of difficulty is that I'm flush draw, I know how to count the outs and the percentage of the odds on the turn and river but the villain charges my flush very expensive, and I'm in that situation that turning out to my flush made a lot but if I am not completely committed in the tournament ...

 

[discintildeath]

Micro Stakes suck that is all

You will always have more people willing to risk a dollar or two and make stupid decisions at those limits. You will remember those beats better because of how stupid those people are and its unavoidable in my opinion. But they are giving you the advantage and it is a good opportunity to practice bankroll management and not get too frustrated at things that are out of your control especially when you are ahead by a significant percentage.

 

[pancho_1954]

whenever you find yourself against a donkey like you say, it's hard to say you can do something, you can play AA and KK in various ways, but since they play in a crazy way, they have a great opportunity to flip your move, you must remember that AA and KK will not always win, you will not always find the same donkeys always

 

[Eric Salvador]

Play a wider range and call down with your good holdings eventually if you can't you need to pick a good spot and make a stand

 

[MemphisGrind]

Good people, I come to ask for the help here of you because I am with a great difficulty of playing against the donkeys of the SNG microlimits. After having several AA and KK broken for 45o 83s I wanted your help on how to behave against those donkeys that pay with any card in hand ..
Another thing I have a lot of difficulty is that I'm flush draw, I know how to count the outs and the percentage of the odds on the turn and river but the villain charges my flush very expensive, and I'm in that situation that turning out to my flush made a lot but if I am not completely committed in the tournament ...

AA and KK get cracked a lot and they will continue to get cracked they are just one pair and can be beat. Your first question is how should you play against those players. Well first off I am not sure what type of player YOU are or how much knowledge of the game you have. In my mind there are multiple types of donkeys. The first type is one that is a loose passive calling station... the best strategy against a player that you can't bluff is to play ABC poker. Trap them when you flop big. Get max value every street on your monsters and tighten your range.

The next type of donkey is the kind that play everything. Good part about even bad players is they still at least watch the action and at min. know who's actively playing hands and who's not.... so if you sit back and create a tight image you can also put some light 3 bets in your range against these players, play aggro against these players, put them to the test. If they are going to get in the grease with 45s and 83o charge them for it, in the long run you will come out ahead.

Second portion of your question I was having a difficult time understanding just because of the wording, but I think the just of it was that you understand your outs relative to the best size, and you feel the opponent also does too and exploits that? however you say you are in the micros playing donkeys so there isn't as much of that as you think. Most cases they just simply don't understand bet sizing, don't level yourself. Add implied odds in there and figure out if you have any fold equity and these odds may increase your ability to call knowing you can stack the player or get him or her to fold. The math is there for a reason so if it doesn't make since fold and move on to the next hand. However make sure you are using all of the math and not just some.

 

[JordieChloe]

Play the odds and in the long run you will win. If you have the pot odds play; if you don't, don't. You will win long term.

 

[57noona]

Play the odds and in the long run you will win. If you have the pot odds play; if you don't, don't. You will win long term.

I agree with you on this. It will work out in the long term.

 

[MemphisGrind]

Play the odds and in the long run you will win. If you have the pot odds play; if you don't, don't. You will win long term.

I agree.... but it's not just pot odds.. you have your card odds, implied odds, reverse implied odds..... but I suppose if the player is not on this level then yes pot odds would be the simplest to follow...

 

[B1BOMBER]

For beginners AA or KK are not the best hands in poker. They are great starting hands but can be beat easily. My favorite hand is 3 5 and if I have a big enough stack I will call your all-in with AA or KK and often I will bust them for I do it both online and in live games. A lot of the people I play live with have odd favorite hands and for a reason they win with them often. One player loves Q 3. I don't see the appeal of Q 3 but he does win with it and he sees no appeal with my 3 5 but I win with it. You can call us donks when we beat you, but we did beat you. The way I prefer to play AA or KK is with extreme caution for with AA I get beat over half the time.

 

[MemphisGrind]

For beginners AA or KK are not the best hands in poker. They are great starting hands but can be beat easily. My favorite hand is 3 5 and if I have a big enough stack I will call your all-in with AA or KK and often I will bust them for I do it both online and in live games. A lot of the people I play live with have odd favorite hands and for a reason they win with them often. One player loves Q 3. I don't see the appeal of Q 3 but he does win with it and he sees no appeal with my 3 5 but I win with it. You can call us donks when we beat you, but we did beat you. The way I prefer to play AA or KK is with extreme caution for with AA I get beat over half the time.

The guy is asking for help, and while I respect your opinion, I just need to let it be known in case people read this and believe it. This is not a good way to play poker AA and KK are great hands they just don't need to treated like gold every street. People give warning signs throughout the hand basically screaming what cards they are playing. All you have to do is not get married to your hands and be able to lay them down when you feel that you are beat. Not play some "favorite" hand and think because it is your favorite hand it all of a sudden wins more or less.

 

[radartodd69]

I run into that situation a lot. I have 4 to a flush and have to call major bets to see turn and river cards. Lately I've been calling them down to either make it or see their cards. I find the people aren't bsing at all. They have real good holdings and are trying to keep people from getting there with their flush and straight draws. That being said. I really hate when I have to call those big bets to see if my hand comes. My question would be am I supposed to give up on my draws all the time when big bets come?

 

[wsbar]

Playing cautiously is the advice I give you, fold no no no no no, play hard pre-flop with AA, KK, QQ. It is not easy to win this type of tournament because the players pay with any two cards and they disappoint when they hit something mediocre. More I find it very inconvenient to call them donkeys, we have to respect the people who are learning, be humble and have patience.

 

[Slip_Me_Aces]

Your KK and AA will eventually outlast the 45 and 83 of crazy micro sng players over time. As long as you see you are getting your money in good most of the time against these players then the only thing you really need to do is have patience. Don't get frustrated over a crappy hand beating one of your premium hands. Just be positive in knowing you had the best hand in the right spot it just didn't work out but next time it will!

 

[MemphisGrind]

I run into that situation a lot. I have 4 to a flush and have to call major bets to see turn and river cards. Lately I've been calling them down to either make it or see their cards. I find the people aren't bsing at all. They have real good holdings and are trying to keep people from getting there with their flush and straight draws. That being said. I really hate when I have to call those big bets to see if my hand comes. My question would be am I supposed to give up on my draws all the time when big bets come?

Nothing is an every time thing. When you play, you should have a range that you put your opponent on, and the reason this is so important is because sometimes there range includes cards they can hit that even if you complete your draw its still no good. So that needs to be taken into consideration. second part of this is if the price is wrong with all odds considered then you will be loser long term if you keep making the call. It takes less than 10 seconds to figure out the odds. Sometimes you have a live read on a player and you can tell they are also chasing a draw, in these times chasing your draw is profitable because you can bluff river if they miss there perceived range or stack them if you hit.

 

[SoCalGrndR1]

One thing I learned a while ago is that the more you are focused on improving your play, understanding odds, position, stack sizes, etc... The less you will focus on results. You need to reflect on your play, did you get your money in good.

That being said, you also need to know the players you are playing with. When you know that you are playing against villains that will call all-ins just to double up etc.... You need to adjust and know that AA is 85% to heads up, but that diminishes with each additional player in the hand. If you know that you are in early position, is all in the best move? If there are 3-4 callers/all-ins ahead of you, will you still risk your stack??

ie... I was playing at a Bicycle Casino event with $200k Guarantee. A foreign player (just easy to distinguish his voice) was talking a lot about tournaments, taxes, playing loose aggressive, etc.... He went out early on our table - within 20 minutes from the start of the tournament. We then see him walk to a table next to ours and sit down. He is continuing to talk etc.... and within 10 mins or so the table gets really loud and half of them are standing up. This guy stated, "well with the pot odds I have to call". Turns out that he held 7-10o and ran out a straight. One lady walked away in disbelief after shoving with AA and losing. The lady knew a player on our table and walked over to tell her.

A couple of points for me on this.
Early in the tournament, do you want to risk all your chips preflop?
How many players are you up against?
What position are you in?

If you analyze your play and you made the right decision - you cannot look at the outcome! If you made the right decision, then move on. If it effects you it will only make your subsequent decisions worse. The best poker you can play is making the right decision if the outcome does not match your decision - that is variance and part of the game.


SoCal

 

[Zikasamaster]

You want to call with 45o and something like that,you lose because you have a bad luck but you must beat variance,play a lot of stng and mtts and try to be in a lot of heandsagainst that kind of donkeys.....