DannyNegs style

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Nutcracker69

Visionary
Joined
Nov 10, 2015
Total posts
692
Even though I used to be Durr and Dan Colman before they were even around, that style *obviously* has huge swings. In HUGE tournaments, I basically acted like Jamie Gold and talked my way into calls and folds as if it were magic (almost always) getting them to do what I wanted, even though mixing up saying I wanted one or the other. (Yeah, for you newbies, people used to actually TALK online while they played)

Then I "grew up" and decided that super-aggro was silly, but restrained aggression coupled with the ability to make the hero call was the way to go. Basically I was trying to be Esfandiari (who, oddly enough, is one of the top pros I never played with/against) and his logic of "it's hard to make a pair in holdem" and "they can't always have it, right?" meant you could have the courage to call down a river bet with 10 high when you were hoping to see a missed small straight.

This general attitude has carried over to this year with my return to online poker. Thing is, at all levels (literally played every single thing on ACR except for the 1k cage since I just recently got an understanding of how it worked) you'd see this crazy play. Sure, plenty of times they'd have it, since, generally speaking, players are better now and the lower the limit the less expectations for bluffs and bluffs to work. But even at higher limits, you can have 45 in the BB on an unraised pot and flop 456. You check and the guy jams like whatever ridiculous like 40x pot. You deduct that the only way this play makes sense is if he has 23 or MAYBE even 37 and is worried about higher straight draws. He could even have a set and, again, worried about the draws. But you decide to go with your gut and expect to see HIM with the straight draw. Sure enough, he flips over a7, and while you're happy to be ahead, you won't be satisfied until you TID. 8 outs to win with 2 to come is plenty on ACR. But that's not how it's going to go down. That would seem fair. Nope. Instead it is a 6 on the turn and an ace on the river to scoop all your money.

So I'd had enough, and was looking for a solution. For now, with no bankroll, I have to lower my variance somehow. So I'm taking the Negreanu approach that I learned in 3 short (2-3 hour) streaming sessions. (Interestingly enough, he didn't win in any, but I could envision how I COULD when applying it)

Thus far, I have opted to WWDD except in two cases. He always always always limps his SB. Sometimes even with limpers in position, but guaranteed if folded to him. He could have 27o or AA, he limps and checks the flop. I don't care for this. I don't think it is a problem/mistake or "leak" in his game. I just have a personal preference very much hating the SB and playing almost any hand in it. But yeah, if there are 9 players and it's folded to me, maybe I limp to see what comes. But, generally speaking, and especially with any action in position, I'm waiting for another spot and just folding my garbage that has no real equity other than miracles that might have next to no implied odds when hit.

The other exception I have taken is the real reason for the post and where I want YOUR input. Daniel has indicated that people who try to "perfect" their bet sizing to be like 233 instead of 200 are just silly and wasting their time. Maybe so. But I think he is basically just being lazy and prefers to hit the min raise button from whatever position he feels comfortable with a decent range of hands. But, as an example, he will min raise on the button with QQ, which will get either both blinds or just the BB to call most of the time. When the flop comes 459r and is checked to him, he'll lead out with 50% pot or more. BUT when he is called, almost no matter what the runout is, he is looking to check/call it down. If he hits running Qs for quads he'll bet small for value, but that doesn't happen often on the trusted pokerstars site.

HIS rationale is that he is playing "small ball" and using "pot control" and that's all well and good. My contention is that he is making it cheap and easy to runout on him even when he has premium holdings. In the 459r example, you could float a call with an 8 and then get max value checking the 6 on the turn and getting checked back and then leading out on the river with 7 for the 2nd nuts.

So what's your view? Does this style work? Or are these a couple areas that might not need to be applied the way he does if you want to make your own "tweaks" for finding an optimal approach.

I mean, he is, after all, the money leader of all time, so he might have an idea on what to do. But I thought I WAS ALREADY playing like him because on TV it seems like he does, in fact, play small but that he's basically trying to see as many flops as possible thinking he can outplay his opponents post-flop. But watching a few example online it is clear that he insta-folds the vast majority of holdings preflop.
 
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subdylzep

Rock Star
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Total posts
143
Well that delusion is always going to be shared by many, but such a large field you need exceptional skill and experience coupled w some bit of luck to take down the main event. I will say I'm a huge fan of Dannys play, his small ball is a great way to approach the game of poker and like you said, the all time Tournament money leader. I think what he doesn't tell you (and doesnt want to) is that at certain points and certain times in tournaments its ok to bet the turn w the 459 board. The point here is to keep the pot small and not take an unnecessary risks, but he is also playing longer tournaments with higher chip counts to start and longer blind levels, so there is plenty of time to keep your chips up and get the implied odds and make the hero calls. More than likely someone (who you have deemed over aggressive) will try to steal a pot when you can easily call down and increase your chip stack without putting too much at risk. However, at times in the tournament when everyone is between 5 - 30 blinds even danny isn't going to check down just because the % of getting there is too high w an increase of 50% or more to your chip stack even w small ball poker. The blinds have gone too high and the chance of a checkdown is just giving too many free cards. Now in high stakes professsional tournaments these blind structures are harder to come by, but with a turbo online tournament it is very real. Generally, the professionals will always have someone over 75 or 100 BBs in the tournament no matter the level just because the blinds are so long and have so much playing time to amass a chip count, but this just doesnt happen online or in smaller local tournaments. I think what you need to realize is he is going over generalized rules for tournament play and not going over every situation (nor does he want to). He's a professional and isn't going to give out every secret. I've seen him raise w JJ 11x the blind preflop early and I've seen him raise w 10x4x 11x the blind preflop early as well... its hard to put him on hands and understand his notion of playing. He still has to throw people off, its no limit poker, its an art not a science and everything is situational. If he is playing at a tighter table im sure he will take the lead and play more aggro just because its more profitable and the right play, just that in the world of aggro = Good poker he doesn't have to very often, he can sit back and wait to have someone bet into him and make the good call. He's my fav player because my innate ability is to read a player and small ball poker favors that, but if you aren't as good at reading people and are better at fooling people perhaps his style of play isnt suited for you. I can check down the QQ or even get away from it if i have a good read on a player, but not everyone can do that. Many play more on aggressive traits, fooling people, acting, talking, and basic mathematics. It's all situational, and always changing at poker tables. Its important to remember every tournament, buy in, chip stack, level, and type of people you are playing against make a difference, adjust accordingly. Good luck in future events.
 
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Dan Lucas

Rock Star
Joined
Apr 18, 2016
Total posts
475
I sort of like Negreanu's style, just because it seems like he wants to play more poker than just flip coins. It certainly seems to work for him, and I would probably say my style is evolving to more and more small ball in general. But altiough that may be a general style, (as I am sure you already know this), he does shake things up once in a while just to throw a bit of uncertainty in his opponents. I have followed a few of you threads and think you have legitimate concerns and ideas. You may be right about him not wanting to do the thinking, but he is a professional and maybe he just wants people to think that. One thing I have seen from him over the years, he will try to mess with people to maximize his return by getting them to make the mistakes.
 
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Nutcracker69

Visionary
Joined
Nov 10, 2015
Total posts
692
I sort of like Negreanu's style, just because it seems like he wants to play more poker than just flip coins. It certainly seems to work for him, and I would probably say my style is evolving to more and more small ball in general. But altiough that may be a general style, (as I am sure you already know this), he does shake things up once in a while just to throw a bit of uncertainty in his opponents. I have followed a few of you threads and think you have legitimate concerns and ideas. You may be right about him not wanting to do the thinking, but he is a professional and maybe he just wants people to think that. One thing I have seen from him over the years, he will try to mess with people to maximize his return by getting them to make the mistakes.

I can post this video that i saw again this week, where had had equity in a hand but had the worst hand of the two on the river. He was first to act and made a decent bet. THEN, he says to the guy, "what do you have, Kings?" The guy DID have Kings! And they were good! But how the hell are you supposed to call off the river after the guy bets and then tells you what he assumes you have??

To add to the humor, before the even get through the next hand, the guy admits that he had kings and kinda asks something you can't really hear like "where they good?" and Daniel says "yeah, of course they were good! I never said they weren't good I just said that's what I thought you had."

LMAO
 
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