Conscious Thought Process of Limpers ??

theANMATOR

theANMATOR

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We all know there are certain situations when limping,,,, isn't terrible.

We all know - the very first hand of a 3 hour late registration full-ring MTT with 200bb to start with - where limping a marginally playable hand from early position - is not one of those situations.

I would even be able to make a compelling and sustained argument - against anyone - who holds the opposing view - that there is hardly ever (NEVER) a good situation in a standard full-ring MTT, when limping a marginally playable hand from EP is a good strategy.

But what I really don't understand is the mindset of those certain players who have VPIP 40+ and are limping ANY playable junk from any position.

UTG A/7 off - limp, MP Q/8 off - limp, CO 4/2 suited - limp. Any Ace - limp, any two suited cards from any position at the table, especially the ones that are ridiculous like J/3 & 9/2 - limp. :eek::eek:


I'm just really curious about this 'strategy' and what is the thought process that compels a player to limp any marginal playable hand from any position at any stack depth during any time of the tournament.

Anyone who uses this strategy - please - I'm ready to be enlightened.

Anyone who believes they know what the players who utilize this strategy are thinking - feel free to give your insight.
 
Nafor

Nafor

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Anyone who believes they know what the players who utilize this strategy are thinking - feel free to give your insight.
I would imagine that having a VPIP 40+ comes exactly from there - limping. See if the hand hits the flop, if not - fold. I don't think there's much of a strategy behind it. More likely it is a desire to play as much as possible.
 
B

BIGAUS

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I second what Nafor says. I stray away from personally using the strategy (although I'd be lying if I said that I don't sometimes limp to vary my gameplay) but I think it is all about the mindset of trying to see a flop for cheap and if I get something playable after the flop having a game plan on what to do after that. Maybe they're players who are not comfortable getting in a lot before the flop unless they have a clear premium hand. Maybe they just like playing as many hands as they can because that's how they enjoy playing the game, win or lose. If you can spot these tendencies, then you'll recognize their gameplay and can play them accordingly.
 
theANMATOR

theANMATOR

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I second what Nafor says. I stray away from personally using the strategy (although I'd be lying if I said that I don't sometimes limp to vary my gameplay) but I think it is all about the mindset of trying to see a flop for cheap and if I get something playable after the flop having a game plan on what to do after that. Maybe they're players who are not comfortable getting in a lot before the flop unless they have a clear premium hand. Maybe they just like playing as many hands as they can because that's how they enjoy playing the game, win or lose. If you can spot these tendencies, then you'll recognize their gameplay and can play them accordingly.

Yup - thats what I do. :)
What prompted this was the beginning of a 4k gtd this evening. The first 14 hands were 3bet - which isn't abnormal - I guess - one guy clearly had a wide 3betting range - the reason he gave me half his stack in the first 10 minutes.
But there were two other - limpers - who gave away 13 big blinds - limping and folding.
One guy actually called with one of those weak hands - and gave away half his stack when he managed to hit top pair with a head shaking kicker. Ended up he was up against KKs and paid for it.

I just don't see - lets "try" to get in cheap and see if we can hit as a sustainable strategy. A/8 off - flop top pair vs 3 players - what do ya do. Flop 2nd pair with your 8 - what do ya do?

IDK - seems - just bad.
 
YenRodriguez

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this style looks a lot on cash tables. I even played it like that and it is profitable to some extent. nor do I get to abuse.
trying to gain a bit of stack to play it in strong hands.
 
F

fundiver199

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But what I really don't understand is the mindset of those certain players who have VPIP 40+ and are limping ANY playable junk from any position.

They are beginners, who have learnt the rules of the game, but they have not read any poker books, watched strategy videos or posted in poker forums. So they are just trying to intuitively figure out, what a winning strategy is. And the thought proces is probably something along the lines of this:

"Q4s is not the best hand, but if I make a flush or maybe two pair, I can potentially win a big pot. So I will try to see a cheap flop, and if it gets to expensive, I can just fold, and it will only have cost me one blind, which does not matter in the long run".

I was like that, when I started playing way back in 2006. It was only later, that I came across one of the early poker sites with strategy articles and videos and started to learn, what is now known as the TAG strategy.
 
Plut41

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What are the buy-ins you're playing? If it's like a dollar or less then people just don't care about it and play whatever they feel like. Sometimes even bigger buy ins. And believe me you wouldn't want to play against strong solid players because it would be so difficult to win anything. That's what we want, we want a dude with A7 calling us with KK. It's just people want to double up with kings but they cry everytime their kings get cracked.
 
R

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I have a tough time figuring out a good limping strategy except for SB.
If you limp some hands and raise others, limping shows weakness unless you have some strong hands to protect your limping range. But limping with strong hands seems counter-intuitive.

If others at the table are limping, I raise linearly by 1/3 of their limping range. So if someone limps 45%, I raise with top 15%.
 
L

Lucky_Shark

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I think limp is a bad game. But they think "I'll see the flop, maybe I'll get lucky".
 
daddybrooks

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In early position on a nice aggressive table, i'll use limping to induce raising behind quite a bit. Let them drive it up a bit first before coming in higher. Doesn't always work of course and not a staple of my play, but going with your post, i'm saying it's at least part of my game. It's not with crap hands like your example, so may not be a direct response to your question.
 
theANMATOR

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In early position on a nice aggressive table, i'll use limping to induce raising behind quite a bit. Let them drive it up a bit first before coming in higher. Doesn't always work of course and not a staple of my play, but going with your post, i'm saying it's at least part of my game. It's not with crap hands like your example, so may not be a direct response to your question.

Yeah - their is about 3% that use this strategy in my micro player pool - and I know who they are and I'm cautious against their EP limps. The 'trappers' :)

I think to do this sometimes - and then think - I'm letting everyone in this pot for cheap - nope can't do it. min-raise at least. :)
 
theANMATOR

theANMATOR

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What are the buy-ins you're playing? If it's like a dollar or less then people just don't care about it and play whatever they feel like. Sometimes even bigger buy ins. And believe me you wouldn't want to play against strong solid players because it would be so difficult to win anything. That's what we want, we want a dude with A7 calling us with KK. It's just people want to double up with kings but they cry everytime their kings get cracked.

I play $16.50 and under unless I win satty tickets into larger events, however I do not see this as often in events 5.50 and up.

I'm not complaining these players play this way. Just questioning the reasoning. This strategy is a continuous flow of chips in the direction away from the players who utilize this strategy - why would I complain? :)
 
TeUnit

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I see lots of crazy limping, its one thing to over-limp your 22 with 3 limpers in front of you with 10/20 blinds but, to:
1. Limp with sitters - worst play in poker. You get to play a bad hand with no initiative out of position, all while saying I do not want the sitters chips and I do not care if we are losing ground to other tables.
2. Limp the button- its like you are saying you do not believe in fold equity or the power of position.
3. Limp fold to the short stack on the bubble- not enough taxes in the world so why not give myself an additional icm tax.
4. Limp trash and pray- maybe I get lucky and hit some cards or maybe I partially hit and get value owned.
5. Limp with high blinds - its like why not waste my chips on a trash hand when I need them the most.
6. Limp AA,KK,QQ(low blinds)- because this gives the villans the best to crack them.
 
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terryk

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because it annoys certain players who think they know better,,,, ;)
 
theANMATOR

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I have a tough time figuring out a good limping strategy except for SB.
If you limp some hands and raise others, limping shows weakness unless you have some strong hands to protect your limping range. But limping with strong hands seems counter-intuitive.

If others at the table are limping, I raise linearly by 1/3 of their limping range. So if someone limps 45%, I raise with top 15%.

Interesting strategy. I will observe the range these players are limping, especially the ones that are coming in with suited garbage 6/3s, and J/5s, form any position. I'll mark them - accordingly, and take advantage when the opportunity presents itself.

It's pretty easy to bluff these cats also - with a rainbow board and any one broadway card.
Often it will require a double barrel - but when the rainbow completes on the turn - they are seldomly continuing.
 
theANMATOR

theANMATOR

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because it annoys certain players who think they know better,,,, ;)
I think you are joking probably. The players I'm talking about have not graduated past level 1. I'mma limp this rag Ace UTG. Imma limp this K/3 suited cause I might just get lucky if I'm even able to see a flop to hit a flush.

Level 2 players may do this - not those this thread is about. :) ;);)
 
akmost

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GR
Nice question and to be honest how can you defeat those players? You will isolate them 1, 2, 3 times? After that the rest opponents will flat / 3bet you in position and we are back to zero.

Open limp with 200 bbs doesn't feel ''normal'' to me too but maybe I am wrong? On the other hand what is the positive outcome of that move? Invite the whole table to see a cheap flop and lessen dramatically your EV etc?

Open limp is acceptable in many situations but that deep I don't do it.
 
theANMATOR

theANMATOR

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I’m a limper! Come get me!

I saw you limp twice ever - it was AA and AA both times!! lol

I limped once too - it was a mis-click, and I paid for it. HA!
 
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