card dead, and the WSOP SUCKS

M

Memphis legend

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 14, 2021
Total posts
39
Chips
0
Would like feedback on my recent situation..... so I studied, and studied, and studied more.. things like c betting, position, dry and wet boards,, etc. Last night I played in the wsop circuit in Tunica. with all my studying, I was absolutely,, and I mean absolutely card dead. I got to level 8. the structure was 15G's in starting chips, and the blinds were 20 minutes, which I'll never play a structure like that again given the buy in. It was absurd.. anyway if I hadn't bluffed 3 hands with an all in I wouldn't have lasted as long as I did. so I would like advice, thoughts in general on when the dreaded card dead hits you in a tourney. I think my biggest mistake was playing a structured tourney like that given the buy in was $150. and I couldn't find out what the structure was for 2 months prior. Couldn't even find out what it was yesterday calling down there. WSOP has really gone down. I have nothing good to say about the organization, because there is no organization! I asked 4 floor people what the home office number was to the WSOP, and none knew what it was.. when I told them I couldn't get info on the structure, they said it was the SHOE in Tunica's fault. when I told this to the local staff, they said it was the WSOP's fault. But I digress. my main concern is your thoughts on how you play being card dead...

thanks in advance.
 
mervin88

mervin88

Visionary
Bronze Level
Joined
Apr 3, 2018
Total posts
925
Awards
9
Chips
145
card dead, happens to the best of us, nothing you can do about it, turbo structure, more all ins, it is what it is, you have to win all your all ins
 
S

SharkyShark1

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 3, 2021
Total posts
55
Chips
0
Card dead happens so often, sometimes you need to open up your game, play some different hands. It just happens and just hope you'll get lucky with other hands
 
dallam

dallam

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Aug 2, 2018
Total posts
3,098
Awards
28
Chips
157
First of all, congratulations to was being able to participated in a competititon like WSOP. :) From the point of my view I 've never joined to a tournament where I have no information about the blinds - it not only tell me how much the game will gonna last, it tell me how I should play in the stages to being able to get as far as I can. So I can see why it disturbed you, and I can only recommend to ask them next time till they finally realise that someone is actually responsible to give you a hint about the game's structure you joined in.


About being card dead, you can be patient and keep folding, but after a time especially cause the blinds you need to open your range and being able to adapt your game what you have, and looking for positions to do so. As you had 3 successful bluffs, your opponents may saw you tight - which can be an advantage if you can use it.
Its not the end of the world if you didn't reach what you came, I think we can learn from games like these too. Better luck next time. :)
 
Poker_Mike

Poker_Mike

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Total posts
4,770
Awards
2
Chips
382
Would like feedback on my recent situation..... so I studied, and studied, and studied more.. things like c betting, position, dry and wet boards,, etc. Last night I played in the WSOP circuit in Tunica. with all my studying, I was absolutely,, and I mean absolutely card dead. I got to level 8. the structure was 15G's in starting chips, and the blinds were 20 minutes, which I'll never play a structure like that again given the buy in. It was absurd.. anyway if I hadn't bluffed 3 hands with an all in I wouldn't have lasted as long as I did. so I would like advice, thoughts in general on when the dreaded card dead hits you in a tourney. I think my biggest mistake was playing a structured tourney like that given the buy in was $150. and I couldn't find out what the structure was for 2 months prior. Couldn't even find out what it was yesterday calling down there. WSOP has really gone down. I have nothing good to say about the organization, because there is no organization! I asked 4 floor people what the home office number was to the WSOP, and none knew what it was.. when I told them I couldn't get info on the structure, they said it was the SHOE in Tunica's fault. when I told this to the local staff, they said it was the WSOP's fault. But I digress. my main concern is your thoughts on how you play being card dead...

thanks in advance.



Structure sheet should be listed on WSOP website...

Just below each tournament -----

WSOP | Tournament Schedule
 
A

alien666dj

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 7, 2020
Total posts
1,308
Chips
0
Dead cards do not happen as often as it seems, and we remember them only because the negative emotions that they bring us are the strongest. You just need to take this aspect of poker for granted and move on, if you fail to do so it will be very unfortunate.
 
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
13,457
Awards
1
Chips
297
If you are card dead in a turbo MTT, then you will normally bust quickly, and there is absolutely nothing, you can do about it. Its the same as asking, how you can avoid running your KK into AA. The answer is, you cant, and its all just part of variance. As you said yourself, maybe dont play a live tournament with this kind of structure to begin with, if you are unhappy about being send to the rail after playing almost no hands at all. Online this is a bit easier to accept, since you just register for the next one, and then the next.
 
BetterThanAvgButNotByMuch

BetterThanAvgButNotByMuch

Visionary
Bronze Level
Joined
Jan 1, 2022
Total posts
806
Awards
1
Chips
78
I'm sorry the structure of the tourn did not meet your expectation but they've been playing this type of or similiar structure for YEARS at a lot of the circuit events all across the country.

Before entering a tourn I always suggest folks scope out the tourn or cash game they want to sit at before entering so you know exactly what you're getting yourself into. When you get down to the casino and things are not to your liking then just bail and wait for another tourn or another time to play the WSOP. The WSOP circuits aren't the end all anyway. And they go through Tunica a lot also so if you miss it then its not the end of the world either.

The 15,000 starting stack is an illusion if you're thinking this tourn is going to be slow and you can hang out and wait for a strong hand. That's not what this is. The ante and blind structure are there for folks to fight tooth and nail for almost every hand from the start. What I mean is the blinds aren't like 100/200 or 300/400 but 100 then 300 or 300 and 500 for the BBs. There is a big difference and with the added antes started from the beginning of the tourn, they want you to fight and not relax in this tourn instead of waiting for a hand. The other thing is its a rebuy, meaning they give folks incentives to play aggressively for pots by letting them back in.

You're going to have to open your range up, battle for pots and try to figure out where you are in hands and gamble. There isn't an early stage of this tourn like you're counting on but begins with a middle stage strategy and when I think about it is more involved on the experience side especially if you're going with only one buyin.

There are strategies for this type of tourn and they can be a lot, I mean, a lot of fun if your middle stage tourn game is there and you're prepared to rebuy, ie you've got the bankroll for it. Best thing is not to get discouraged from this minor setback, it happens and continue improving your game. If you're really mad, I mean really mad then I wouldn't blame anyone/anything but focus on a way to improve your odds of doing better next time by improving your middle stage tourn play with antes, look at rebuy tourn strategies on Youtube or in books and keep improving!!

I was trying to think of a tourn that might help you get some practice but all i could come up with is Advanced Poker Training site that has bots that you play against and I'm thinking you could set that type of tourn structure up and play that to get more practice but its an expensive pay service of like 20-30 bucks a month.

Another alternative perhaps could be the uber low guaranteed tourns on ACR like $1000 guaranteed but I'm not sure on those since I haven't played those. I just played in the Evan Jarvis' 6 handed Friday $250 freeroll on ACR and that's at a faster pace than your WSOP structure but you're going to have to open up your range in those type of tourns and learn what hands you can go with.

I went in with Tens yesterday and ran into QQ and got booted uber early while I was watching Evan as he went in with QTo preflop then turned a boat, lol. and I'm pretty sure he just didn't do it on a whim being 6 handed and that particular tourn structure. So there is a strategy and the hand ranges are going to be different than what you're expecting is my point.

Ask Evan if he has any pointers for rebuys and quick paced tourns, he might tell you to go to his webpage or might take the time to give you a more in depth response if you're specific about something, you never know.

Overall though, its your job to figure it out, make the adjustments and understand that even if do things perfectly that you can still lose, that's just the nature of the game shown by my example and Evan's hands. So do everything you can to prepare yourself by improving and preparing for that particular type of tourn and make sure your bankroll can handle your buyins without thinking "I could have done xyz with that buyin money", what a ripoff, lol, no, no no.

Stay positive and keep going!!!
 
Last edited:
MemphisGrind

MemphisGrind

Think Bink
Bronze Level
Joined
Apr 12, 2018
Total posts
2,098
Awards
2
Chips
0
Hello, I am also from the Memphis area. I spent the last week and a half down there playing at the WSOP in Tunica. From my experience, all of the structure sheets were to the left of the registration desk, on the wall. In addition you could also find the structure for all tournaments on WSOP.com by clicking Circuit and then scrolling down to Tunica.

You had said that the particular tournament that you played in was a $150 buy in and to my knowledge there was not any tournaments at that price point. I have added a screenshot of the events below.

I am curious to know if we know one another, I know most all players from the Memphis area. If you want to private message me and let me know that would be cool. I would love to share with you games around town, and study communities that we have here.

As far as the card dead aspect. When you're playing a tournament that is considered a "turbo" you will have to adjust your range, because the blinds are moving quicker. Most of the tournaments that I played during this weeks circuit were NOT turbos. They had pretty decent structures actually and you could fold for even multiple levels, and still have plenty of BB's The players there were paying off a lot of things light, so even if you were card dead and patient, you could wait for the nuts, and would generally get paid off.

The only tournament that was close to turbo was the nightlies. They are the $135 buy ins and I played about 4 of those with an average buy in of about 3 times. The payouts were kinda crappy with a min cash giving you +$47 on original investment but they were adding a main event seat up top which was $1800 value and most times it was paying +5k and main event seat. So even though the structure was crappy the prize pool was decent.

What people should be focused on in the WSOPC is the sit and go's where you can play them ranging from $135 up to $250 and then you can have people do the last longers which is rake free and will generally get the rake down to 5% from 20% just a fun fact.
 
MemphisGrind

MemphisGrind

Think Bink
Bronze Level
Joined
Apr 12, 2018
Total posts
2,098
Awards
2
Chips
0
Hello, I am also from the Memphis area. I spent the last week and a half down there playing at the WSOP in Tunica. From my experience, all of the structure sheets were to the left of the registration desk, on the wall. In addition you could also find the structure for all tournaments on WSOP.com by clicking Circuit and then scrolling down to Tunica.

You had said that the particular tournament that you played in was a $150 buy in and to my knowledge there was not any tournaments at that price point. I have added a screenshot of the events below.

I am curious to know if we know one another, I know most all players from the Memphis area. If you want to private message me and let me know that would be cool. I would love to share with you games around town, and study communities that we have here.

As far as the card dead aspect. When you're playing a tournament that is considered a "turbo" you will have to adjust your range, because the blinds are moving quicker. Most of the tournaments that I played during this weeks circuit were NOT turbos. They had pretty decent structures actually and you could fold for even multiple levels, and still have plenty of BB's The players there were paying off a lot of things light, so even if you were card dead and patient, you could wait for the nuts, and would generally get paid off.

The only tournament that was close to turbo was the nightlies. They are the $135 buy ins and I played about 4 of those with an average buy in of about 3 times. The payouts were kinda crappy with a min cash giving you +$47 on original investment but they were adding a main event seat up top which was $1800 value and most times it was paying +5k and main event seat. So even though the structure was crappy the prize pool was decent.

What people should be focused on in the WSOPC is the sit and go's where you can play them ranging from $135 up to $250 and then you can have people do the last longers which is rake free and will generally get the rake down to 5% from 20% just a fun fact.

For whatever reason it's giving me issues posting the picture of tournaments. So I will just add the link https://www.wsop.com/tournaments/schedule/?groupid=4901
 
teepack

teepack

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Mar 5, 2014
Total posts
2,317
Awards
1
Chips
14
If it was a $150 buy-in, that was most likely a casino event or a satellite into a WSOP Circuit event. I've never known a WSOP circuit event to have smaller than the $250 buy-ins for the Seniors events. And the turbo satellite events are awful. They become push-fold tourneys after about two levels.

As far as being card dead goes, sounds like you handled it pretty well. You've got to really take advantage of position in those kinds of situations (i.e. if it folds to you on the button or cutoff, shove and hope to get folds and scoop the antes). You want to hang on for as long as you can until you start getting cards.
 
S

skaterick

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jul 2, 2015
Total posts
1,787
Awards
10
US
Chips
176
its really hard to find good value

at small stakes nowadays , live or online . brick + mortar casinos charge ridiculous fees to enter most tournaments (then they expect you to tip a good chunk if you manage to get a cash ), and they rake the ring games so hard they are almost unbeatable ( save for some spots in Vegas ) .many online poker rooms have been upping their cuts on MTTs, ring games, and SNGs (even 6 handed turbos ! ). my advice is to find or start a rake free home game !
 
Luvepoker

Luvepoker

Lost in the twilight zone
Community Guide
Joined
Feb 21, 2018
Total posts
5,284
Awards
23
US
Chips
492
There is little you can do when card dead but the thing is poker is not always about the cards. You should look for spots to steal some blinds since your so card dead people may have you pegged as a nit. Just winning 1 hand per orbit or 2would help to keep you in the game longer just so you may finally get a hand and double up. .
 
WSOP
Top