Calling off 10bb-15bb stack

[johnnythemoss]

I've seen the Push/Fold charts which show which hands you should push or fold for a given stack size in a tournament. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe those assume that you are the first to enter the pot. If so, what factors determine whether you should call off your 10bb-15bb stack?

Let's say you're in the CO and a player in EP shoves for 15bb. You have 88. Is it a call? If so, why? If not, why not? Would TT be a call? Would AQs be? I assume Villain's stats are a factor too, but hand strength must be the main factor, right? I'm looking for advice on how to navigate those situations. Thanks.

 

[ph_il]

I've seen the Push/Fold charts which show which hands you should push or fold for a given stack size in a tournament. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe those assume that you are the first to enter the pot. If so, what factors determine whether you should call off your 10bb-15bb stack?

Let's say you're in the CO and a player in EP shoves for 15bb. You have 88. Is it a call? If so, why? If not, why not? Would TT be a call? Would AQs be? I assume Villain's stats are a factor too, but hand strength must be the main factor, right? I'm looking for advice on how to navigate those situations. Thanks.

if i had 10-15 bbs, for me, this is an easy call in co with 88, 1010, and aq suited.

the main reason is i'm short stacked, so i am willing to take pretty close equity spots to double up. againt an ep jam range, i likely fall somewhere between the 40/60 - 60/40 equity range. with 10-15 bbs, that's more than enough for me call off my stack for a double up. of course, this is villain dependent. if villain is a tight player and doesn't jam preflop without jj+, ak suited, i might fold. but, i'm usually calling calling here against most players.

now, i did say 'for me' it's an easy call, but for others it might be a fold and that's ok as well. it really depends on your mtt goals and what's important to you. i prefer to play for bigger stacks, but i also risk busting out more often. i don't mind not 'surviving' as long as possible and taking close equity lines when my short stack demands it. other players might fold because they can wait for a better spot to get their money in and also last longer in the mtt by folding and not risking it.

 

[johnnythemoss]

if i had 10-15 bbs, for me, this is an easy call in co with 88, 1010, and aq suited.

the main reason is i'm short stacked, so i am willing to take pretty close equity spots to double up. againt an ep jam range, i likely fall somewhere between the 40/60 - 60/40 equity range. with 10-15 bbs, that's more than enough for me call off my stack for a double up. of course, this is villain dependent. if villain is a tight player and doesn't jam preflop without jj+, ak suited, i might fold. but, i'm usually calling calling here against most players.

now, i did say 'for me' it's an easy call, but for others it might be a fold and that's ok as well. it really depends on your mtt goals and what's important to you. i prefer to play for bigger stacks, but i also risk busting out more often. i don't mind not 'surviving' as long as possible and taking close equity lines when my short stack demands it. other players might fold because they can wait for a better spot to get their money in and also last longer in the mtt by folding and not risking it.

Thanks, that's an interesting answer. I'm wondering if you just 'feel' the right decision when you're in a spot like that. Is it based on experience or something specific you studied? Do charts or solvers provide 'objectively correct' answers to situations like this?

 

[UkoChebuko]

You can use some software. HRC is very good. There is a trial for 1 month. You can use Equilab as well. There are some factors:
1. Dead money. This is the blinds and the ante. Let's say 1,5 blinds and one blind ante. 2.5 blinds. But this is "for you and him". Sorry for my bad English...For you is only 1.25 bb. In this case. You don't need to know "exactly". Very rare there are a borderline spots. Ok, you have 15 bb. This blind and "something" is roughly 8% from your stack. 4% less equity needed. This is actually a "small factor". Let's say you call with 55, now because of this you can call with 44 as well. You call with AJ, because this money you can call with ATo now.
2. ICM. You must add most likely 1-6% equity. Depends on the stage, pay out structure, short stacks, your stack, you position (UTG is very bad). Sometime this is a huge factor. You must add 15% equity.
3. Capped range. The people go All in with 10-15bb very often with capped range. They don't have the strong hands (AA, KK). May be "very capped". You can call "light". Because of this. The pocket pairs are very strong. They have more equity vs most of the hands from his range (but you don't need more most likely). They crush some of the hands and got crushed from very little part ot his range (TT, 99).
4. Overcall...How many players are behind you!? What type of players? In this example, TT , AQs and 88 are great. Because this factor. Some of the hands play very well in All in situations. Even with more players. Some of them don't...
5. Bounty. You must call very light, if you have a bigger stack from the pusher.

And ofc what kind of player is this guy. Is this a reg!? Aggro fish!? Passive fish!? Different players, different ranges for open shove.
You can use this tools. See some hands. Some ranges. How the equity changes. Which hands are good, which not. You are in the right "road". You are thinking... This is very good.

 

[UkoChebuko]

I'm wondering if you just 'feel' the right decision when you're in a spot like that. Is it based on experience or something specific you studied? Do charts or solvers provide 'objectively correct' answers to situations like this?

Both...You "feel" the right decision, because you have an experience and knowledge. "Solvers", I said HRC. You can change the "theoretical" ranges with a "real" ranges. The charts can't make you a player. The charts is only "theoretical". They provide very basic knowledge.

 

[Oxinthewater]

Discussion of a few specific hands here won't help too much, experience and software are the key here.

Equilab is free and a fantastic place to start. Plug in the hand you want to look at (88, TT or whatever) for 1 position and what a push/fold chart says for the other position. Change the situation , and run it many times - see what you observe.

This is a start - you adjust for player tendencies (most are much tighter than push/fold charts) and ICM, but this will help you get a feel for the baseline.

 

[emzadii]

If you wish to focus on hand strength only (disregarding for a moment villain's stats, stage of tournament and also ICM):

Calling a 15bb all-in with your own 15bb stack, with dead money that includes the big blind, the small blind and the (presumably 10%) antes, that is about a 46% pot odds.

If you give the EP a VERY tight range of 88+, ATs+ and AJo+, then:
The threshold hand strengths to call are TT+, AQs+ and AKo+
(note: if you exclude AA for this range, presuming that the EP likely will raise than to shove outright, then the threshold hands for this range only adds 99.)

From here on, based o experience, you adjust for tendencies, tournament stage, ICM, "feel", etc.

With a short stack of 15bb, though, people tend to shove a fairly wider range, i.e., 55+, AJo+, A9s+, K9s+, KQo, QJs and JTs. Even with this range, 88 is a borderline call.

 

[johnnythemoss]

Wow thanks guys. That's great info. I will use Equilab to assess various spots.

 

[pokersextreme]

Knowing whether to call or not depends on the player that is going all in and what cards you have to call the all in with. If the player is loose then calling would be good idea and if the player is tight then 10's and under would be a bad call for me to make in that position.����*♂️

 

[madbeeet]

Personally, I focus on my feelings, being determined only by the strength of the hand does not bring me results. I look at my opponent, my stack and the situation in the tournament. As a rule, 15 BB is a reason to shove, but at the same time focusing on all factors