Call or fold with trips.

[ammje]

Hello mates, What do you think about this hand,

It was the cardschat tournament.
BB60, I had A9s, a limper, I didn't want to do ROL, because the blinds were small, and in this tournament the players pay more, so I decided to see a cheap flop.

SB complete, and BB check, flop 4 players.

Flop 10 9 7, the blinds check, player pony bets 60, je otramas and the blinds calls, pot 480.

Turn 9, twinpaches mini donkbet 60, pony raises 660,
I did not like the action that was on the turn, after thinking about it for a long time, I decided to fold, I still have the mini donk bet player, behind my back,
what would you have done.

 

[alienat3d]

Hi ammje,


to be honest I'd prefer to raise x4-5 on PF. 1st reason is that you're likely the last to act on every street, if MP3, CO and BU fold. 2nd reason – it's much easier to figure the situation on the marginal spots in HU, rather than in multiway pot.
With 3 villains in pot you gotta hit your monster to be sure you're still ahead.


In addition, if you'll open raise it and somebody call down or even 3bet, at least you bought information and narrowed the range of your villain. It will make way much easier post flop and could prevent you to get in trouble, like at those turn card.


So later in that hand we see pretty wet flop, no flush draw, second pair hitted and three villains with wide ranges. Time to wish for checking till showdown or even give up the hand on an aggression.


The Cpony's bet 60 in 240 means basically nothing. It could be a weak try to get pot if nobody hit, it could be also a cautious try to increase pot a little with a very strong hand like J8 or 77.


I think at the turn when comes another 9, these re-raise overbet shows a real strength and we gotta believe it. The only hands we could beat some 9s like K9s, Q9s, J9s, 89s, but we're already losing to T9s, 77, TT (well it depends on notes really, some people always raise tens preflop, some only limp/call). Another important thing is that we're in multiway pot and it would be pretty reckless to re-raise that big without holding nuts or close to it. As I remember Cpony is a tight solid player, it's another reason why fold on turn was right for me.


All-in-all you could avoid this really tough spot by raising on preflop. Poker becomes way too complicated postflop with so many villains in pot and much more chances to expect, that someone hit nuts.


Thanks for posting an interesting hand, btw! :tee:

 

[Andrew Popov]

I agree, a pre-flop raise would allow a marginal hand like 68 or J8 to be knocked out. But in this situation, you have too many opponents, with the possibility of hands 10-9, 10-10, 77 and so on ... Fold in this case will be a good solution.

 

[fundiver199]

Preflop
I think, iso-raising is generally a ton more profitable than limping behind. Especially in a situation like this, where we have 3 players, that can take position on us, and we also have a hand which dont play all that well multiway, but has a relevant blocker preflop.

Sure we can flop a flush, but that only happen like 1% of the time. Much more often we flop top pair with a meh kicker, a second pair like this, or a draw. And I would much rather have those kind of hands against one opponent rather than multible.

Flop
Not much to say here. We have second pair in a multiway pot, but we are only facing a min-bet, so nothing to do here other than stick in the call and see a turn.

Turn
We improve to trips, but now the action heat up. Fishy min-donk from the blinds, and original limper now hits the pot button. I think, we have to call here. Other than making a flush, this is the best hand, we can even hope to make.

Sure we could be behind to a straight or a boat, but I think, he could also easily be doing this with trips and a worse kicker. K9, Q9, J9, 98. Those are all hands, people typically limp into the pot with.

I also think, his line is really weird, if he flopped a straight. Fishy min-bet on the flop, and then he pots it, when the board pair making his hand worse? Makes no sense to me. So I will at least somewhat discount straight, and J8 is also a worse hand than those 9X, and unless he is really bad, it should not even be in his range.

Finally we have 10 outs to boat up, so even if he has a straight, its not like, we are drawing dead. So for me this is a clear call, and then I just make a decision on the river depending, what card comes, and what he does.

 

[ammje]

My doubt is not the preflop game, they believe that if I had done ROL at 240 the other players would have folded, I don't think so, you play that freeroll in acr, you know the players.
If it were a real money tournament if I had done ROL.
In this situation I see a cheap flop, if I connect something good, I bend, if not, easy fold, I have lost a bb.

 

[fundiver199]

My doubt is not the preflop game, they believe that if I had done ROL at 240 the other players would have folded, I don't think so, you play that freeroll in acr, you know the players.
If it were a real money tournament if I had done ROL.
In this situation I see a cheap flop, if I connect something good, I bend, if not, easy fold, I have lost a bb.

4BB is a very small isolation raise, and if it does not generate folds, then there are other sizes available as well

 

[pentazepam]

4BB is a very small isolation raise, and if it does not generate folds, then there are other sizes available as well

Have you played freerolls lately?

They almost always limp call their entire range. And are total morons post-flop.

I am with OP her. Just call and see a flop.

On the turn I agree with a call. An all-in probably only gets called by worse if he has a nine. But in a freeroll you never know. I am certainly not folding unless I know the players very well (especially not playing for free).

 

[fundiver199]

Have you played freerolls lately?

It was a Cardschat freeroll, and if its anything like those on 888 or Stars, then players are not completely terrible in general. A bit more terrible if its open to all Cardschat members rather than just the freeroll club though

 

[Luvepoker]

Cponys min bet on the flop looks like a 9, 7 or draw. If he had the straight already I think he would have bet more on the flop since it was 4 handed. When he pots it on the turn it looks like he has a 9 as well or bluffing on the small betting so far. You have the outs to river the boat and if he has a nice you have the nut kicker at this point. I would have called this bet here, He could have us at this moment but i think we are ahead at this point and we have out to win the hand if we dont.

 

[ammje]

You almost guessed the villain's rank.

Hi ammje,
The Cpony's bet 60 in 240 means basically nothing. It could be a weak try to get pot if nobody hit, it could be also a cautious try to increase pot a little with a very strong hand like J8 or 77.
I think at the turn when comes another 9, these re-raise overbet shows a real strength and we gotta believe it. The only hands we could beat some 9s like K9s, Q9s, J9s, 89s, but we're already losing to T9s, 77, TT (well it depends on notes really, some people always raise tens preflop, some only limp/call). Another important thing is that we're in multiway pot and it would be pretty reckless to re-raise that big without holding nuts or close to it. As I remember Cpony is a tight solid player, it's another reason why fold on turn was right for me.
All-in-all you could avoid this really tough spot by raising on preflop. Poker becomes way too complicated postflop with so many villains in pot and much more chances to expect, that someone hit nuts.
Thanks for posting an interesting hand, btw! :tee:

You almost guessed the villain's rank.

I agree, a pre-flop raise would allow a marginal hand like 68 or J8 to be knocked out. But in this situation, you have too many opponents, with the possibility of hands 10-9, 10-10, 77 and so on ... Fold in this case will be a good solution.

Preflop
I think, iso-raising is generally a ton more profitable than limping behind. Especially in a situation like this, where we have 3 players, that can take position on us, and we also have a hand which dont play all that well multiway, but has a relevant blocker preflop.

Sure we can flop a flush, but that only happen like 1% of the time. Much more often we flop top pair with a meh kicker, a second pair like this, or a draw. And I would much rather have those kind of hands against one opponent rather than multible.

Flop
Not much to say here. We have second pair in a multiway pot, but we are only facing a min-bet, so nothing to do here other than stick in the call and see a turn.

Turn
We improve to trips, but now the action heat up. Fishy min-donk from the blinds, and original limper now hits the pot button. I think, we have to call here. Other than making a flush, this is the best hand, we can even hope to make.

Sure we could be behind to a straight or a boat, but I think, he could also easily be doing this with trips and a worse kicker. K9, Q9, J9, 98. Those are all hands, people typically limp into the pot with.

I also think, his line is really weird, if he flopped a straight. Fishy min-bet on the flop, and then he pots it, when the board pair making his hand worse? Makes no sense to me. So I will at least somewhat discount straight, and J8 is also a worse hand than those 9X, and unless he is really bad, it should not even be in his range.

Finally we have 10 outs to boat up, so even if he has a straight, its not like, we are drawing dead. So for me this is a clear call, and then I just make a decision on the river depending, what card comes, and what he does.

4bb is the standar, but for me to make a large pot in freeroll CC, it is better option to see a cheap flop.

4BB is a very small isolation raise, and if it does not generate folds, then there are other sizes available as well

Your comment is very successful.

Have you played freerolls lately?

They almost always limp call their entire range. And are total morons post-flop.

I am with OP her. Just call and see a flop.

On the turn I agree with a call. An all-in probably only gets called by worse if he has a nine. But in a freeroll you never know. I am certainly not folding unless I know the players very well (especially not playing for free).

It was a Cardschat freeroll, and if its anything like those on 888 or Stars, then players are not completely terrible in general. A bit more terrible if its open to all Cardschat members rather than just the freeroll club though

Cponys min bet on the flop looks like a 9, 7 or draw. If he had the straight already I think he would have bet more on the flop since it was 4 handed. When he pots it on the turn it looks like he has a 9 as well or bluffing on the small betting so far. You have the outs to river the boat and if he has a nice you have the nut kicker at this point. I would have called this bet here, He could have us at this moment but i think we are ahead at this point and we have out to win the hand if we dont.

 

[makisaa]

After pony raises, it smells like a foul house or even a trap with a straight. The straight is also possible with that flop. If I was playing I would fold too, basically because of the big raise.

 

[fundiver199]

Him showing up with a full house does not mean, you made a good fold. It just mean, he had the top of his range this time.