Bovada-Omaha MTT ICM Question????

Acesinthebig

Acesinthebig

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Recently played one of Bovada's Summer Millions events; PLO 6 max 5k GTD. About 210 runners, get down to 4 left, and I end up 4th in chips with 200k, while 3rd had about 220k, and the other 2 stacks were over 500k.

Prizes are about $500 for 4th - $700 for 3rd - $900 for 2nd - and 1250$ for 1st

I will just give brief overview of the hand - I'm SB, I complete, 220k stack is BB. I flop the nut flush draw and lead out, they both call. I hit the Nuts on the turn, I check, BB bets the turn, Big Stack puts in a raise and I shove allin, BB goes allin and the big stack calls, and the board pairs on the river giving the big stack a boat and shipping the hand, busting us both and giving me 4th place. BB had 2nd nut flush, big stack flopped a set.

My friend was telling me that it was an easy fold for me because of ICM. I don't play Omaha that much but nuts on the turn seems pretty strong. Obviously, I understand nuts on the turn is not the same as nuts on the river but can I really fold there? Also how was I to know that the BB was also going to shove allin. Probably should have lead the turn, but not sure if that changes anything either. It is an ICM nightmare but can I really get away and should I be getting away?
 
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WiZZiM

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pretty simple call, ICM isn't huge here as we are last in chips and we have the nuts.
 
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donkcentralFF

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Seeing that you would be first if you win this hand and it's x2.5 pay jump for 4th and 1st... Not to mention your at least 75% to win this hand assuming you or the other all-in dont have any of the community cards in your hands.. NO NEVER FOLD IN THIS SITUATION... If this was hold'em and three people remain would you fold AA if they both jammed before you?
 
mbrenneman0

mbrenneman0

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I've never played Omaha but from what I've heard, flushes are pretty marginal compared to Holdem simply because opponents are drawing to full house a lot of the time.

I disagree with wizzim, if hero would have folded he would have earned 200$ for the fold. No info in hero's post about pot size or bet sizing, but if the other guy is pot committed it might be an even easier fold. Either two things happen if hero folds: Shorter stack wins, and hero is still in 4th. Oh well... Or shorter stack loses and hero scores 200$ for a fold
 
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WiZZiM

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A few things you may have missed from his post.

1. we're in last place.
2. We are the one shoving all in, not calling all in, so we still have fold equity over at least one player here.
3. we have the nuts, and even if players are drawing against us, we're still a super solid favourite here, at worst we're vs two players, at best we're crushing one and while it's true that in omaha people are drawing way more often, we're still at least a 60-70% favourite here.
4. yes i agree we need more relevant info.
5. you may earn $200 for a fold, or the BB may just fold, making you look like a total spaz for folding the nuts. Point is here we're not having to call all in, he jammed all in over a raise, we could theretically get two folds here and walk away with a big pot for nothing a certain amount of the time.

So yeah, you are pretty wrong about this one sir, quite happy to get more into detail about why
 
mbrenneman0

mbrenneman0

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Ahh, I thought big stacks raise put hero to call all in. I didn't realize hero raised to all in
 
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donkcentralFF

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LOL just because it's omaha doesn't mean he has more outs to get a full house... Percentages remain the same.. The third guys hand is irrelevant because he is either gonna have a straight or drawing to full house with two pair.. To even think about folding a hand where your going to win 75% the time is asinine and not to mention I'm guessing the third caller is holding some of the outs for a full house so your prolly closer to 80% just got very unlucky at a bad time...
 
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canabero

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sorry my ignorance, but what is ICM?
 
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WiZZiM

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independent chip model

basically its a way of assigning a $ value to your chip stack dictated by the prize pool. it helps you make better decisions in terms of $$ instead of thinking just about gaining chips.
 
Acesinthebig

Acesinthebig

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Thank you everyone for your responses! My friend deny's ever telling me that it was a bad fold, so apparently he was trolling me, but the feed back was still nice. I don't think there's anyway I can fold the nuts. I also realize more information would have been nice, if you want I can post hand history.
 
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