Avoiding limping

G

gichka97

Visionary
Joined
Apr 21, 2020
Total posts
737
Awards
1
Chips
0
Hey guys,

Can you suggest me what is the best way or how to avoid limping into plays with middle and not so strong hands as QJ,JT, small or middle pocket pairs?
 
B

bellicoso

Visionary
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Total posts
549
Chips
0
Hey guys,

Can you suggest me what is the best way or how to avoid limping into plays with middle and not so strong hands as QJ,JT, small or middle pocket pairs?


So, if I am first to raise in whatever position (aka Raise First In or RFI), I will do a simple 2x raise -- twice the big blind. However, if others have limped before you, it's not necessarily a bad thing to limp as well, again depending on position, blinds, etc.

You kind of have to get a feel for what works best for you. This is just going to take a little time. Good luck! :D
 
G

gryphon3005

Rock Star
Joined
Nov 3, 2018
Total posts
353
Chips
0
I think one step you need to take is to figure out why you limped some hands. The answer is not always obvious. Perhaps you are worried about bigger stacks yet to play or maybe you're just trying to get others to call or fold so you can get to the flop for a cheap price. Of course when you don't flop the nuts you're probably folding, right? It most likely means you just are not happy raising with what you think are weak hands. So, start off adjusting your ranges. Fold those hands unless you are in late position and raise if you are first in. Now see how that strategy works. If you find you can't get to the late stages of a tournament because you can't build a stack then change those ranges again...open up and play those weak hands in middle position...but always raise when you are first to act. I'll bet you will find this adjustment working much better. Good luck.
 
3

300HPGOD

Legend
Joined
Feb 13, 2018
Total posts
1,255
Awards
10
Chips
1
I would come up with a standard raise sizing that you like and feel comfortable with. One that you will use on any hand that you have that you will be raising with when first in. Most likely the best amount for this (as blinds go up you can decrease this to 2.25BB and 2BB) is 2.5BB. Notice that when blinds are small, 1.5 big blinds that you are putting in more than if you limped is not all that much. When blinds increase and you use 2.25BB or 2BB it can be significantly more than limping but that is okay. The extra chips it takes to make a raise should deter others from getting in the hand and will make post flop play easier. The biggest issue with limping is you will normally be in a tough spot post flop since you will have a harder time ranging anyone. Knowing that it will be easier to play post if you raise should be reason enough to get rid of the limps in your pre flop game.
 
thehangdude

thehangdude

Visionary
Joined
Mar 21, 2020
Total posts
713
Awards
4
Chips
0
I have a small range of hands I like limping during certain times in the tournament. QJ and JT would not be part of that range. If I want to play those hands, I want to raise. Limping is good for slow playing certain good hands, and mining certain small pairs and suited connectors. With this range, you can fold, call, or raise if anybody 3bets you, depending on the hand.

My limping range changes often, but might look like this.
QQ - KK (4bet raises)
22 - 66 (call raises)
56s - 89s (fold or call raises)

Or it might change to this.
AQs and AK (4bet to raises)
A2s - A9s (call or fold when raised)

The reasons I don't put QJ and JT in my limp hands, is because they play much better against single opponents. If you have multiple limpers, even with a top pair flop, QJ can be second best and cost you a pile of chips. With 4 players in a hand, you almost always know how your 55 or 67s are doing. And with your big hands, they become trap hands. A9 might call a couple streets against your AK and an A62 rainbow board. QJ might shove a J94 board when you hold KK.

Only use a limping strategy when you have 30+BB. It is also fine to never limp. I like doing it to change up the game a little. It keeps me from getting bored while confusing some villains.
 
R

rickblackdog

Enthusiast
Joined
Nov 30, 2019
Total posts
32
Chips
0
What stakes/games are we talking here?

I used to HATE limpers quite passionately, however, I’ve started to incorporate over limping in to my MTT game. Particularly at the micros (and my home game) because I’ve a post flop edge and can often stack a fish.

Depends on position but usually small pairs, poor hands like KJo QJo
 
perrywh

perrywh

Legend
Joined
Feb 17, 2018
Total posts
1,787
Awards
6
US
Chips
1
I limp all the time just to change play up.
 
M

mollymaggie

Rock Star
Joined
May 20, 2020
Total posts
150
Chips
0
Avoid Limping

Hey, depends on our position if you are looking to play always throwing out a raise with middle hands you're going to end up losing a lot of money. I'd much rather limp with a QJ to see the flop and maybe a Q or J hits then the raise is called for especially if your card is the high card on the table. It's better to be safe than sorry after you've bet out only to see an A or K flop and puts your JQ in jeopardy. So I'd advise to not disregard limping as part of your game
 
F

fundiver199

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Total posts
11,197
Awards
1
Chips
17
Sometimes limping behind can be ok, and in tournaments with antes SB open limping is also a reasonable strategy. But in spots, where limping is not a good play, yet you do it anyway, then its probably a sign, you are not really sure, why you are playing. If it is to win, then you must find the discipline to fold, when no other option is profitable, even if folding is "boring". Hope this helps :)
 
5

5KINGLEO5

Rock Star
Joined
Apr 29, 2020
Total posts
353
Chips
0
I wouldn’t limp such hands at all, or raise or fold.
 
D

daniel888

Visionary
Joined
Apr 19, 2018
Total posts
502
Awards
1
Chips
1
I think raise first in is always a good strategy. But there are still some cases that limpping is fine such as you are in early position, and the opponents behind you are very aggressive or someone limped before you and your hand is not strong but still can play. If there is someone behind you raise, you should prepare to call. Though some hands that are good to limp or call limp are just small pairs to middle pairs or suited connectors. QJo or JTo is not good hands to limp or call limp, you should fold these hands. You just play these hand when you're in late position and no one has raised.
 
Dailon Arroyo Blandon

Dailon Arroyo Blandon

Legend
Joined
May 22, 2017
Total posts
1,324
Awards
11
CR
Chips
1
Well ... I always wait to see with what hands that player is doing "Limp", if they are middle or marginal hands ... that we all know that the best way to play against those players who like to do "Limp" many times is to raise by 2.5bb ... if he calls, then next time try raising by 3BB ... then raise 4bb ... until he "Folds".
 
ADRI7HO

ADRI7HO

On the road...
Loyaler
Joined
May 6, 2020
Total posts
4,753
Awards
2
Chips
116
Speaking before me, the point has been said. So in general, it's a good idea to raise around 2 - 2.5BB instead of limp with such cards as well (of course, to include other broadway card combinations from the top pairs in this lifting range so you don't get to know). Of course, if you get a re-raise, you can even call or fold, depending on the re-raise player.


Good luck! :)
 
M

madmandown

Rock Star
Joined
Aug 23, 2015
Total posts
386
Chips
0
Speaking before me, the point has been said. So in general, it's a good idea to raise around 2 - 2.5BB instead of limp with such cards as well (of course, to include other broadway card combinations from the top pairs in this lifting range so you don't get to know). Of course, if you get a re-raise, you can even call or fold, depending on the re-raise player.


Good luck! :)
Limping is applicable only on late position and in some scenarios other than that always raise.
 
roger perkins

roger perkins

Visionary
Joined
Oct 21, 2015
Total posts
953
Awards
2
Chips
1
Hey guys,

Can you suggest me what is the best way or how to avoid limping into plays with middle and not so strong hands as QJ,JT, small or middle pocket pairs?
Limping is not the problem. Its when to know and how to know how to get out of a hand that you know you are beat with. Limping is a great way to set a trap and to get trapped. But limping sometimes is a very valuable tool. Dont look to avoid it look to learn how to use it better.
 
M

moshie

Rock Star
Joined
May 9, 2020
Total posts
142
Chips
0
in early position I would never play QJ or JT off suit. What happens if you get raised 3-5 bb behind you? Are you going to play such a weak now out of position with players who have raised or called the raise behind you?
Pairs such as 66-99 I don't mind limping as long as you stack at least 35+ bbs
if you have to call a raise to 3-4 bbs you can afford to set mine.
If you don't flop a set you will problem because of over cards flopping.
 
G

gichka97

Visionary
Joined
Apr 21, 2020
Total posts
737
Awards
1
Chips
0
Limping is not the problem. Its when to know and how to know how to get out of a hand that you know you are beat with. Limping is a great way to set a trap and to get trapped. But limping sometimes is a very valuable tool. Dont look to avoid it look to learn how to use it better.

That is the main weapon I use when I am limping as you told - trying to beat the others with passive way, especially if the other players is very aggressive and you can steal easily his chips with that kind of play. But it can be done one or two times, because after that the others will understand what kind of player you are and then limping is not suitable for play on that table. Thank you for the advice.
 
rastapapolos

rastapapolos

Rock Star
Joined
Sep 21, 2013
Total posts
331
Awards
2
DZ
Chips
54
If you want to avoid limping just put a raise of x2 or x3bb, if the pot is opened from early position, i don't suggest you to play offsuited hands like QTo, JTo, KJo cause too often you're behind. if you hold low or medium pocket pairs and there are already one/two limpers, just limp behind cause you want to set mine. and sometimes players tend to limp with AA KK from early position and will R/Shove if there's some action in front of them, just be carefull.
 
antonis32123

antonis32123

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
Total posts
5,425
Awards
19
Chips
388
I have seen far too many times people limping to see the action after them , get good odds , then see the flop cheaper than if they had bet first . Or if it's a not so good hand , with good odds , see the flop and deliver a bad beat or unlucky situation to a foe :)

The only thing is when to limp , what hands , how far you can go with this strategy . This I am trying to learn nowadays , and ofcourse limp less but limp better hands . For example , I have seen sometimes limping with A rag can be prifitable whe calling shoves from short stacks for the flip ;) But limping far too much and call bets at the same time , definetely not a good strategy , more loose game than necessary , I think :)
 
madbeeet

madbeeet

Rock Star
Joined
Jul 25, 2020
Total posts
240
Chips
0
I love these hands, but I do it very carefully. 2-2.5 bet. And then I look at the situation)
 
TeUnit

TeUnit

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Total posts
3,888
Awards
12
Chips
71
Since the pandemic, I have noticed way more sitter limping, button limping, and high blind limping. If its good enough to limp in late position, why not capture some fold equity and use your power of position and raise.
 
Last edited:
Top