A tip for the final stages

[Bleeis]

When we are in the final stages and we have a committed stack in the tournament, being in prize jumps, the advice when you go to go All in is to leave 1 bb or 1 ante, so if more than 1 player goes all in, you can fold and in this way climb a prize jump


explain me well? Example:

Player 1 hero : 10 bb, bet 9.8 bbs
Player 2 fold
Player 3 : All in for 11 bbs
Player 4: All in for 15bbs
Player 1 hero: fold (stack 0,2bbs)

 

[Oxinthewater]

Interesting, would it really be worth folding a huge pot to jump up just 1 place and virtually guarantee you won't finish any higher?

If this happens, in what situations do you fold?

 

[armoko]

if it was for example large tournament where there is quite big difference in prizes between 4th and 3rd place then I would understand this move.

 

[ph_il]

Why not just fold pre? Or raise smaller?

 

[najisami]

Lol, that's kind of funny ! I understand your point of view but don't agree with it. If the payout difference is worth it, then just fold and wait it out. If you have a playable hand suitable for that stage of the tourney, then you go for it.

 

[venycyos]

I don't see much sense in this move, if I have 10bb I hope the chance to be able to double. If I consider giving up I only do 2bb and I get 8.

 

[Bleeis]

I don't see much sense in this move, if I have 10bb I hope the chance to be able to double. If I consider giving up I only do 2bb and I get 8.

It is used in moments where the jump is great, in a situation of blind theft when you go all in, I recommend leaving a little, this movement is done with premium hands but when the icm is so high for the jump, when two players go there in it is better to fold and ensure the jump, you have to analyze the situation very well. This move was not invented by me, it is used by highstakes players and not doing it in the right situation is a big mistake

 

[veltins]

This is interesting point of view which I have seen players using in late stages or in satties .worth to consider only when sattie tickets or massive jump in ft in pay.. I have done mistakes in some ft by goin allin and then seeing few more allins in the same hand , a single pay jump was worth 2000 dollars , and we both got ko in the same hand.. so yes it does make point , but I guess only in those spots

 

[ChickenArise]

I have seen this done where it did make a difference, but in this situation I would prefer to min raise.

 

[DJIGIT666]

This strategy is good if there is a player with a stack less than yours and if the prize money is significantly different.

 

[venycyos]

But what is the difference between putting 02 or 03 bb and giving up, you need to put almost everything?

 

[Bleeis]

But what is the difference between putting 02 or 03 bb and giving up, you need to put almost everything?

People do not realize the strategy, they leave as little as possible to make it look like a mistake, because if there are more than two people All In, in a major prize jump it is fold (high ICM), if it's just you and another is call

 

[ph_il]

People do not realize the strategy, they leave as little as possible to make it look like a mistake, because if there are more than two people All In, in a major prize jump it is fold (high ICM), if it's just you and another is call

Yes, but its not guaranteed anyone is going to bust and you've just put yourself in a terrible spot with 1 bb.

On top of that, even if a player goes out and you move up in the money, you set yourself up to take the current last place with just 1 BB. Using your example in your post:

• Player 1: 10 BBs min raise to 2 BB
• Player 2: 20 BBs folds
• Player 3: 11 BBs all in
• Player 4: 15 BB all in
• Player 1: folds
• Player 3: out of MTT

You're still in 3rd spot but with 8 BBs instead of 1 BB.

I don't understand how your strategy makes sense.

 

[fernando21]

PLAY TO WIN ALWAYS AND NOT FOR A FEW MORE BUCKS

 

[Bleeis]

Yes, but its not guaranteed anyone is going to bust and you've just put yourself in a terrible spot with 1 bb.

On top of that, even if a player goes out and you move up in the money, you set yourself up to take the current last place with just 1 BB. Using your example in your post:

• Player 1: 10 BBs min raise to 2 BB
• Player 2: 20 BBs folds
• Player 3: 11 BBs all in
• Player 4: 15 BB all in
• Player 1: folds
• Player 3: out of MTT

You're still in 3rd spot but with 8 BBs instead of 1 BB.

I don't understand how your strategy makes sense.

The strategy is based on pure ICM, it should always be done with premiums, but when the ICM is so high up to throwing KK, QQ can be considered, again I say it is a tip that should always be taken in the right situation, there are times when one before uncovering the cards knows that it is dominated according to who calls,
so this little stack should be left

 

[venycyos]

Honestly, I don't see that much advantage, but it's something so different that it can suddenly become a good tactic.

 

[natelearnspoker]

Personally I don’t see the point of blowing most of your effective stack to induce all-ins. If anything, it seems kinda sketch not to fully commit and put all 10 BB in.

With three players, I find it’s not hard to induce all-ins by betting half the stack or even better - just waiting until someone does it. My preferred strategy is waiting for someone to loosely shove when I’m ahead and I call and knock them out. I think patience is the best strategy and it’s paid out for me in MTTs.

 

[MikeCarasone]

If you are folding after betting 99.9% of your stack you are wrong. If you’re that concerned about laddering up then do not bet so much preflop or fold to the pay stage. Unless it’s life changing pay jumps which I am gonna be honest I have not ever faced, folding in this recommended way is flat out wrong. IMO if I have most of my stack already in the pot preflop and get reraised for the rest then I am committed to it.

 

[MikeCarasone]

It is used in moments where the jump is great, in a situation of blind theft when you go all in, I recommend leaving a little, this movement is done with premium hands but when the icm is so high for the jump, when two players go there in it is better to fold and ensure the jump, you have to analyze the situation very well. This move was not invented by me, it is used by highstakes players and not doing it in the right situation is a big mistake

I would love for you to tell me which high stakes players are betting all but a minute amount of their remaining stack then folding.

 

[ravhin]

Depends on the payouts differences

 

[Oxinthewater]

I'd like to see some actual examples that we can work through to test this idea, because I just can't see it.

There are too many downsides :

- You show weakness to a player who doesn't see it as a 'mistake' and thus increase your chance of being called at a moment where you seemingly would prefer to take the pot uncontested.
- Most payout structures I've seen are top-heavy. Getting ITM is obviously important, but laddering up just 1 is rarely worth completely ruling out a chance to move significantly higher.
- Even if the payout structure is odd such that laddering up 1 (and no more) is worth foregoing doubling - tripling up, there is the chance that the shorter stack wins. If the short stack also wants to ladder up as much as you do, why does he call with anything other than super premium hands like AA? In which case he's now a big favourite.

I'm open to any idea, but a real or credible example would allow this to be better explored.

 

[Poker Orifice]

This explains a lot .....
(crickets?)

 

[Delfino]

It's not worth it. If you give us the payout structure we can analyze it, but in general you should play to win. Even if you miss few opportunities like this (for example all 3 playes have 1/3 chances to win) once you hit it, your payout should be better for taking the first place than taking not so much gain few times.

 

[venycyos]

So, do we have any conclusions?

 

[lightf]

I don't think this makes sense at all at least there is a big difference between prizes, because at the end you will just go up one place, one always plays to win. If the prize difference between places is a lot and you are tired then yeah, is not that bad, but still, I would go for the win.