This is a discussion on 1 bb donk bets post flop within the online poker forums, in the Tournament Poker section; I feel like if run into a decent amount of players in micro stakes tournaments who'll call a raise pre-flop, then bet out on the
I feel like if run into a decent amount of players in micro stakes tournaments who'll call a raise pre-flop, then bet out on the flop for 1bb, might do so on later streets as well. I'm never quite sure what to make of this play. Do you just treat it like a check and c-bet normally if you were the initial raiser? Do you call cause maybe he has something and is being tricky? What do you guys make of this kind of thing?
My observation: Weak players often do this with suited cards, ace x or king x. I think they want to buy the turn card for just one BB and the river card for just one BB again. Often they bet all their chips with top pair or middle pair on the river. If I raise preflop with a strong hand, I won't let that happen. If my opponent makes a small bet out of position, I raise to protect my hand and make a draw or two pair expensive for the opponent. When I am out of position a C-bet 50% clearly shows I have some hand to play.
Ive seen alot of these donks in micro mtts amke these min bets after the flop Some of them have monsters and dont know how to milk the hand and others missed toatlly and are hoping for a crazy draw . Sinc eI dont know which is which early in the game I just call if I have a decent hand and raise only on a very good hand. Forget bluffing these guys. they will call with 72 of diamonds or worse flop AK2 of spades, and they sill stay pay it down to the river.
I basically treat it as a check and proceed with my normal C-betting range. Maybe I cut down the amount of pure bluffs a bit, because I think, the "fish bet" is some sort of indication, he likes his hand at least a little bit. So I feel, that he is probably going to fold at least a bit less than, if he had checked. I obviously never fold, unless its a very small pot, and I have absolutely nothing. 1BB into a pot of 4,5BB is not quite the same as 1BB into a pot of 20BB.
I think you are underestimating the range of behaviours here, and its intent.
At micro stakes, players are often playing a number of different games trying to find the game where their edge puts them ahead. Lots of SpinNGo type games use the post-flop donk as a strategy.
In non-spins, donk bets are useful for pot control and putting uncertainty into the erstwhile aggressor. Over-pair, under-pair, flush and straight draws. Some bet, some call. But betting is a better option if you want to probe your opponent's post-flop strength.
I'll do this sometimes with a set. It is a happy medium for a slow play. It ensures chips go in the pot, especially in multi-way pots.
Donk bets are also often assumed to be noob bets, so it is a great read herring to do at a new table soon after sitting down.
But in the end, donks are useful for destabilising an aggressor. C-bets on their own don't tell us much. But post-donk behaviour in your aggressor can be quite telling.
I also like to donk when I've called a bet from the blinds and a low, board with obvious draws or having hit low to mid pairs. The one chip bet is gaining popularity. It also tells the aggressors with AK, AQ, AJ that they must hit to get paid and that you're not going to let ace--high walk away.
Now, as the aggressor, you can decide to ignore it and proceed as if it was a check, but I think you'd be foolish to not at least consider the possible implications.
You can tell if the board has draws. So if you can avoid an ugly board, carry on betting. Make the donk uncomfortable. Afterall, your range will include AA, KK, QQ, JJ along with those swing-and-a-miss AK, AQ, AJ hands...so it can be quite dangerous for a donk to proceed against further strength.
A check turn and bet river if you hit (or want to represent having hit) will put your donk in a tough position if an over-card comes on the river after missing the turn.
At the end of the day, consider the weapons in your arsenal. Donk bets of pot size are great for bluff-steal, especially from the blinds as your range can be quite wide.
Don't make the mistake of assuming its always a bluff, the equivalent of a check, or a noob. And don't rule out using it yourself...especially against Nits. You can take back 1/2 - 2/3rds of nits pots this way. If they don't have a made hand and don't hit on the flop, they'll fold to a pot size donk.
Towards the end of a tourney whoever gets the money in first seems to take the pot...so again, donks have their place.
Most of the times I don't take this action into account but I am always alerted in later streets , I cbet normally if I want to etc.
Have seen this move with sets , the total nuts , flush draws and gutters. I almost never lead flop only in the case of a stop and go move (when you are very short on the blinds , usually BB , and you decide not to 3bet jam vs the open raiser - instead you see a flop and you jam if the range favors or hit you).
I am fascinated at reading the responses to this post . . . What is fascinating is that players actually believe the players who play so poorly actually have a strategy as that has never once occurred to me. So in my next games I am going to look for some of the strategies posted in this thread to see if some of these players who are consistently raising do have some type of play . . . Thank you for the insight.
Reading through these posts about donk bets, I really like the post from ObbleeXY, as there are many aspects to consider - even when you are sitting with a pair of aces. But we will all experience this kind of bets and especially in the freerolls and cheap entries on an early stage in the game. To survive this kind of bets you need to consider all boards differently, your own play and have patience from what I have experienced - defend to a limit without risking the whole stack before you really got started.
Itís almost always small pair on the bord, or flush and straight draw. Sometimes itís nothing and trying to buy another card from the deck for 1 bb. Nothing else! Stupid move that almost every time cost that donk bet player chips. Donít put donk bets, donít be a donk. Did you ever see any good player, or a pro player that he donk bets. I didnít, and shore is a big reason for that.
They are the ones, whose pay me out, almost all the time, even they offer their hole stack after turn.
Play against them differently, as some of them do it all the time, any phase of the tourney, stack size, i love those who do it under 10BB.... and if i just call they love to bluff on the turn, how they easily fold if i re-raise, i knew a guy, a hobby, fun player who played it, but i see it quiet often on low level too, not only micros, even deep stack tourneys.
They rarely have the nuts, or even anything, and there are plenty like that, I guess, they saw it in freerolls, or "studied" from each other, maybe some very useful "educational" video....
I almost never fold to a postflop min raise. You're getting too good of pot odds not to call with 95% of your hands. You should look to play as many hands as possible against players who bet that way. Simply put those players are absolute fish. Not only do they not understand pot odds they also don't understand hand equity. They're the players who play nearly every hand. They limp in from all positions and they call almost every preflop raise. The best part about these players is that they will tell you their hand. Middle pair or less and they will min raise, top pair and the pot size bet and two pair or better and their likely to overbet or shove all in. These players drastically over value their made hands as well their draws. Usually they'll be happy to get it in with hands like middle pair or top pair bottom kicker. When they are showing that they have a strong hand it's usually best to just fold your decent made hands. Although there will be times that you end up folding the best hand your better off staying patient and letting them win the small pots because when you finally do have a monster hand they'll be happy to pay it off for you. One thing to be aware of is that because those players will often get it in when they are way behind you're going take some bad beats from time to time. Realize that the bad beats are a byproduct of their poor play and part of the game.
I played a freeroll yesterday where the majority of the table seemed to do this, betting min every card after the flop. It seemed like most of them would fold to a reraise on the river, but micro stakes players are super unpredictable, making any bluffs difficult.