$33 NLHE MTT: BVB spot v decent reg when i have an active image

[duggs]

Active reg, has seen me check value hands to induce and has seen me pot control and bet/fold flops and turns

pokerstars - $30+$3|600/1200 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3: http://www.pokertracker.com

UTG: 41,665.00
UTG+1: 15,364.00
MP: 62,761.00
MP+1: 23,012.00
CO: 45,689.00
BTN: 59,385.00
Hero (SB): 42,989.00
BB: 44,725.00

UTG posts ante 125.00, UTG+1 posts ante 125.00, MP posts ante 125.00, MP+1 posts ante 125.00, CO posts ante 125.00, BTN posts ante 125.00, Hero posts ante 125.00, BB posts ante 125.00, Hero posts SB 600.00, BB posts BB 1,200.00

Pre Flop: (2800.00) Hero has Jc Kd

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 2,640.00, BB calls 1,440.00

Flop: (6280.00, 2 players) Qd 3c 8c
Hero bets 2,512.00, BB calls 2,512.00

Turn: (11304.00, 2 players) 6s
Hero checks, BB bets 5,432.00, Hero calls 5,432.00

River: (22168.00, 2 players) 9c
Hero checks, BB bets 11,088.00, Hero ????

 

[duggs]

Its also ITM maybe last 2 or 3 tables.

 

[SmithGT]

I may be way off, but I will give it a go...

On the flop I would have made a larger continuation bet ~3500. Maybe even fire another barrel on the turn rather than checking with it being a 6s.
I fold to his river bet.

 

[duggs]

Hey mate, think the sizing is fine, problem with bet/folding turn is he is going to raise us with lots of air,semibluff and value hands. and i dont think triple barreling light BVB is going to be that effective since he will just call down any pair

 

[WiZZiM]

We're going to get called or raised alot by competent players on that flop. Either bet more, or bet the same amount, but fire the turn as well.

Checking the turn plays into his plan on the flop if he wanted to float you, and it gives control to him. It's pretty much like saying "ok i took my stab on the flop, i give up, the pot is yours". Then we're in a guessing game on the turn as to if he's full of shit or not, our K high probably has some showdown value, but not enough to c/c 1-2 streets i wouldn't think.

I'd probably bet the same on the flop, but fire out another 1/3 pot bet on the turn.

We can also try things like limping pre-flop, since we're probably likely to get 3bet a lot or called, and since we're OOP, it's just not that great of a spot. Adding to that, i find that a lot of regs tend to fight in BVB battles, so raising pre kind of plays into that.

Hope this is making sense, just got home from work, lol.

Anyways, i'd likely either bet small and fire another small bet on the turn, which puts the decision on him. Or bet one bullet on the flop a little bigger, probably more like 3.5-4k.

 

[WiZZiM]

In general preflop, are we wanting to bet a little bigger to discourage action a little more?

I also think that limp/stabbing is probably a decent way to play these guys. It kind of depends if you think he will raise limps a lot. Even if he does raise limps a lot, we can then include things like limp/re-raising, idk just a thought.

 

[duggs]

but by check/calling that turn we have a stronger percieved range and are drawing to 6 outs to make a stronger hand + lots of cards scare cards we can rep. Also we can call turn bet and check down river and win with K high when he gives up.

 

[duggs]

In general preflop, are we wanting to bet a little bigger to discourage action a little more?

I also think that limp/stabbing is probably a decent way to play these guys. It kind of depends if you think he will raise limps a lot. Even if he does raise limps a lot, we can then include things like limp/re-raising, idk just a thought.

i agree that limp/raising etc can be good, prob 10bb less and i limp tbh. I have a pretty active image tho so i am ok with 4bet jamming over his 3bet when i opened in this particular hand

 

[duggs]

also i am usually minraising this deep into a tourney and 2.2 BVB not sure if thats bad

 

[WiZZiM]

but by check/calling that turn we have a stronger percieved range and are drawing to 6 outs to make a stronger hand + lots of cards scare cards we can rep. Also we can call turn bet and check down river and win with K high when he gives up.

Yes, but we're guessing. He's putting the decision on us, not the other way around. I like making him think, not fire blindly at us because he has initiative.

And who knows if he's even at the level of looking at our range, he probably is, but he may or may not be thinking that much. Like, do you really think he thinks our range is stronger because we check/called the turn? I dont know.

I'm probably wrong, but at least betting turn will fold out pretty much all of his floats, then it only leaves the stuff he wants to get fancy with in a big pot, like raising or of course calling with his pairs that he isn't folding anyways.

But with the pairs he isn't folding, we take control of the bet size on the turn, so instead of paying 5k that he bet (which isn't huge, some players will bet like 6-7k and put us in a really akward spot), we can get away with like 4k or whatever.

Either that or just check/call the flop, it's fine to play these spots passively i think, we have to respect position.

 

[duggs]

he probably checks back anything of value to get value on the river, since our checking looks like check/folding a good % of the time

 

[duggs]

plus betting turn allows him to click it back and put us in one hell of a shitty spot. where we can check/call and let him do stupid shit on the river.

 

[duggs]

I mean if a fish was in bb then i would double barrel for sure. but a reg will exploit a really wide double barreling range.

As played what do you do on river Wiz?

 

[WiZZiM]

Yeah he's going to exploit a bunch of stuff that we do, he has all the power here. So i'd prefer to make this pot as small as possible. We have a good hand or whatever, but it's value has shrunk considering all the other variables.

We make our decision on the turn really, not the river. Having said that i'd likely fold the turn since i have no idea what he's going to do on rivers in certain spots. If i did get in this spot, that 9 isn't a great card so i'd probably fold, but i'd also think we're likely ahead a bunch of times a well on the river. It's such a great card for him to be betting so it would really tempt me to call.

Basically i really don't want to get involved in a bvb "levelling" game here, i'd prefer to avoid these spots and pick spots against weaker players which we have position.

Anyways i need sleep, hopefully get some good discussion out of this one.

 

[duggs]

you dont think he is betting Kx and Ax as a bluff and Qx for value?
I dont like calling when our bluff catcher loses to most of his bluff

 

[duggs]

bumpage, help please

 

[duggs]

Bump, thought this was an interesting spot and looking for input

 

[WiZZiM]

you dont think he is betting Kx and Ax as a bluff and Qx for value?
I dont like calling when our bluff catcher loses to most of his bluff

Yah, i agree folding river is correct, but then i'd say folding turn is probably correct too. Like, we have really only 3 outs that we're happy with, the king and there are literally no other cards that we're even semi happy about calling with on the river, so we're essentially just guessing and hoping he gives up on his bluffs and is passive on rivers or something.

However check/folding turn seems like a really big weak spew vs this guy and he's going to feel really confident playing in every single situation in the future vs us, which is why i feel like betting turn again is the only real option after we bet flop, if he has the balls to raise us as a bluff then, it's his pot nh.

 

[WiZZiM]

Bump, thought this was an interesting spot and looking for input

Hopefully someone who actually still plays this game will comment soon .

 

[duggs]

thoughts on jamming river?

 

[Jurn8]

but by check/calling that turn we have a stronger percieved range and are drawing to 6 outs to make a stronger hand + lots of cards scare cards we can rep. Also we can call turn bet and check down river and win with K high when he gives up.

what?

All value hands bet the turn to get value from draws, your hand looks like some weak draw/weak SD pair.

c/c turn is gross, its too wet to be messing about just c/f turn.

As played c/shoving river he is going to have like 20k to call into 60k so he is basically never folding, he probs checks back weak Qx and marginal pairs so his range is pretty strong.

 

[duggs]

but he likely jams if he is betting for value doesnt he? and doesnt he bluff river with Ax Kx?

 

[Jurn8]

he likely jams as a bluff and bets for value, if he jams pot for value you basically fold everything, your line looks so weak that youre never strong here that can call a jam

 

[duggs]

Id probably take the same line with QQ AA KK KQcc JQcc Q10cc AQcc tho. a reg will bet close to 100% of his floats if i check turn to him bvb? cbet/give up seems like way to weak a line if he is floating me alot doesnt it?

 

[Jurn8]

Id probably take the same line with QQ AA KK KQcc JQcc Q10cc AQcc tho. a reg will bet close to 100% of his floats if i check turn to him bvb? cbet/give up seems like way to weak a line if he is floating me alot doesnt it?

youre missing a tonne of value then vs draws, he isnt floating light on this board texture