tracking stats for live games?

J

jesterdesign7

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Total posts
6
Chips
0
<style type="text/css">p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; </style>Hey I am a hobby player I never play online for real money.
But I do play some small live games 25 dollar buy in tournaments.
I would love the same stats for live games that they have for online. Full outline of your games hand by hand ect. I have them for my play money but it really is not the same is it. =)
I recently talked about this with some regulars at the club I play in.
Some of them agreed that it was a good idea but other were afraid of the club cheating and other shady stuff. I personally have no problem trusting the club since I am guessing if they cheat people will eventually talk and then the club is toast. I doubt the owner will risk that happening.

Anyway I am trying to figuring if this is needed service. I wanted to get a survey on how many people are afraid of this type of stuff and if they would be interested in paying for live stats. By my calculations this is possible for 15 to 25 dollars per user. Would you guys be willing to pay $15 to $20 dollars per month for this service?
Thank

and feel free to ask questions.. =)
 
absoluthamm

absoluthamm

<==Poker Face
Silver Level
Joined
May 5, 2008
Total posts
5,692
Awards
1
Chips
0
What kind of live stats are you talking about? Like as basic as winning percentages and how much the person as won? Or advanced like their actual VPIP(how often the person puts money in the pot preflop) and PFR(how often the person raises preflop) and such stats like that? If it is the former, then no I wouldn't pay for that information in $25 tournaments as I wouldn't find the information useful enough especially if I myself was a semi-regular who would probably know a lot of the info just from talking to others at the table.

If it was the latter, how would you propose that the information is collected? Is the dealer going to write down all of this info during each hand and then hand it over at the finish? Or is there going to be a watcher at each table keeping tabs on everyone just at that tables actions? I'm assuming you're planning on displaying the info on a TV, so there would need to be a dedicated couple of TVs for each table so everyone can see it easily(I wouldn't pay anything if the TV was behind me and I had to keep turning around to get info.). This is not possible in many card rooms. Also, you would have to work it into the buy-in, not as a monthly service, if you were going to display on something like a TV, because otherwise people could just opt out of it, but still see everything.

The logistics of the whole thing wouldn't make any sense for a little $25 buy-in tourney at all. It would be interesting in maybe some $1500 events or something where the players are going to be better and actually know what to do with the information. I may have misunderstood what you were talking about in the post, because there was a lot of detail left out, but in no way that I can imagine would it make any sense for a small tourney.
 
J

jesterdesign7

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Total posts
6
Chips
0
thank you for the reply. And I am sorry for not being clear enough. Please let me restate:

By stats I mean you will be able to go online log into your account and see all the hand history of your "live" games. Once you have the data, number crunching for any stats should be easy. This service is meant to help you go back and think through your moves again at the end of the tournament and see if and how you can improve. You will not be able to see the stats live on tv's although another interesting idea. =)

Now how the data will be collected: The data is collected through rfid chips in the cards and chips. I don't want to go into detail. But Basically, the system will know all the action and each card that is on the table. The data is encrypted and sent online to a server through a Internet connection. The server is were all the data crunching takes place. To have your data collected, you need to create a account online and pay $25 a month, Then when you go play tournaments at the club with the special tables, you sign in at the club with your online account. (I will have to work out a deal with the club).

The data never shows up on screen, It is just a tool to help you improve your game.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Total posts
22,973
Chips
0
Your investment in the technology would have to be huge add the fact that cards need to be replaced constantly and your solution isn't workable.
 
tenbob

tenbob

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 16, 2005
Total posts
11,221
Awards
1
Chips
20
There are i-phone App's for this already. The are terrible, not because of the interface, but because you have to input every move every player makes on the table as they do it. Its very obvious, and the one player I seen use it, was asked to leave the phone off the table once other players got annoyed.

I use an app called "poker income", I use it at the start of each session, and at the end. Dosnt give complete stats but its discrete, it works, and its free.
 
J

jesterdesign7

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Total posts
6
Chips
0
The rfid cards are not much more expensive than regular cards when purchased in bulk. Your right the technology investment is large but it can be worth it if there are enough people interested in the service. That is what I am trying to find out if the service is wanted and by how many people. For example I would say that my regular club has 1600 different people that come to the club a month. if 800 of them were interested in the service that would be 25 * 800=20,000 revenue for 1 club.
 
tenbob

tenbob

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 16, 2005
Total posts
11,221
Awards
1
Chips
20
Ah get ya.

Brutal bad idea. Last night I seen the deck changed around 4 times, caused by the way one players was pinching his hole cards, and the way another players was sitting. Combine the fact that you need to track every single chip, i rekon you are on a road to no-where.

If you really wanted to go ahead, i'd do a trial in a small card room and see how it go's. You'd still be talking in the regon of tens of thousands to set it up.
 
J

jesterdesign7

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Total posts
6
Chips
0
@tenbob thanks I will check out the app. Yea hand submitting each move is not a option. That is why I want a whole rfid table set up.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Total posts
22,973
Chips
0
Also not sure that rfid is capable of tracking chipstacks.
 
tenbob

tenbob

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 16, 2005
Total posts
11,221
Awards
1
Chips
20
Also have you any idea of how many chips a casino, even a small one has to hold ?

My wife ran a poker store a few years back, and when she got an order for a small card club she really was quids in.
 
J

jesterdesign7

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Total posts
6
Chips
0
ok here is proof that the tech is there =D

here is a article that talk about how in 2005 a new casino opened with rfid enabaled chips, cards ect.

http://news.cnet.com/Vegas-casino-be...3-5568288.html

And here is the company I contacted.
http://www.gpigaming.com

I want to do this for small poker clubs first. Making a deal with a casino would be awesome, but not feasible till i get some creditability.
 
J

jesterdesign7

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Total posts
6
Chips
0
oh and I found a way to test it out for around 2,000 dollars but the problem I ran into when I wanted to try it at the club is the owner was afraid the players would think the club is doing shady stuff with rfid. I was kinda surprised by the reaction, So I wanted to ask if this was the thinking of most people.
 
dj11

dj11

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Total posts
23,189
Awards
9
Chips
0
Add me to the horrible idea group.

However, some of those live/electronic tables might be employed. FYI, they play sort of like online poker, with buttons to push and a screen to see, but there is no dealer, no actual cards, and no chips to stack. I would imagine it wouldn't be too hard to get a HH of a particular session for any player willing to buy it. But you would need to make sure your or me could NOT buy someone else's HH.

If there are RFID's on the table, then there will soon be RFID readers in everyone's pocket....

And FWIW, the dealers union strenuously objects to them.:eek:
 
Last edited:
absoluthamm

absoluthamm

<==Poker Face
Silver Level
Joined
May 5, 2008
Total posts
5,692
Awards
1
Chips
0
If there are RFID's on the table, then there will soon be RFID readers in everyone's pocket....
You beat me to it, RFID's, while they work very well for specific industries and uses, are not secure enough and therefore would not be a good option in the least. About 3 years ago I was thinking of using RFID's for a project I had, but came to the conclusion that they just simply aren't a good idea right now to store information that needs to be kept away from prying eyes. Here are just a few articles on the problems.
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.05/rfid.html
http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/19/rfid-credit-cards-easily-hacked-with-8-reader/
 
Organize a Home Poker Game Top 10 Games
Top