How can you beat " Roll the Dice " players???

J

JinxerMan

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My question relates to live cards, not online play.

I play a regular game Friday and Saturday nights, every week. We have been keeping track of over all winnings from the start of 2007, and I have been in the lead from start to now the entire time. Now the reason for this post is not to brag, but I am one of the better players and I feel I have far more knowledge and respect for the game and how to play it then alot of the other players that play at our regular game...

Now for my problem... I will give you an example of a hand that is typical of so many of the players.. I have A-Q I raise preflop 3X (30k) PlayerB re-raises another 30k ... I push all in for $325,000 and he insta-calls and he has $305,000 and he show 2-3 os. and ofcourse he flops a 2. This is typical of the quality of players I am trying to get thru.

My question is, how or what can I do to avoid this or deal with this? And dont say that " they will lose more then they win playing like that" Cause you would be suprised how often they get lucky playing like this...and if its not player A this week its Player B the next week... and then Player C the next...

And as I mentioned I am on the top of the money leader board, but my totals would easily be atleast twice as much if not dealing with these players that like to just roll the dice and get lucky instead of actually playing poker. Also I am the host of this weekly game, and have had moments of frustration when I wanted to just start banning players to get rid of the donkies and try and keep a foundation of quality players, but #1 I would be banning 70% of my regular players...and #2 I feel like by doing so I would be giving the message that I want everyone to play my way... and poker I understand has no set way to play everyone has there own play style. But flat out disregarding odds and commen sense and rolling the dice playstyle is disrectful in my mind.

Any serious advice would be appreciated.

Any serious advice?
 
smd173

smd173

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I play a weekly home game, and while there are some crazy players in my game, none would insta call with 32o after a reraise all in. That is a pretty crazy opponent.

However, in my game, the way I play against our crazy players is to try and keep the pots small against them or stay out of hands against them. Again, long term, that's not the right advice, but I understand where you are coming from.

You also have to be willing to lay down good hands against this type of player. Rather than reraising all in with AQ preflop, what if you had just called? When you missed the flop and he bet, would you be able to fold?
 
A

ace2727

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its just happens like this sometimes all you can do is get in there with the best hand and hope it holds up
 
vanquish

vanquish

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My question is, how or what can I do to avoid this or deal with this? And dont say that " they will lose more then they win playing like that" Cause you would be suprised how often they get lucky playing like this...and if its not player A this week its Player B the next week... and then Player C the next...

Fine I won't.
:(
 
J

jonfelkin

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Even with the cards they have i still think they are on about a 30% chance to win the pot, I guess they reraise for a bluff you push all in, then they feel pot commited for the odds there getting. Just last night i knew my opponet didnt have a hand so i called all his bets down and he had me outkicked on my Ace high. He probally thought i was a Joker for calling all his bets and i thought he was for going all in with nothing when i already told him i knew he didnt have a hand.

The best advice i can see helping you is too see cheap flops, after the flop your in a better position to know what you have, if there as bad as you say just wait til you got the goods and they will call you down with your monster hand to back you up.
 
J

JayDelight729

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I agree. Sometimes you just have to sit back and call as opposed to pushing all in.

In a SNG just yesterday I had a AK, but after the flop there were three hearts on the table. One guy quickly went all in and I knew it was time to bail despite the great starting hand.

I've only been playing for a couple months online, but have recently realized that it's best to use the wait and see approach.
 
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M

maltz

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These suckers are the exact reason that you are ahead!
They are making bad decisions. You should welcome their dice roll because your odds are so good (like a 3:2 coin flip in your case). Every time they win you should encourage them to do it again and again.

Sure, your stack size flucuates quite largely, but if you play frequently (like you said) you should be a consistent winner in average.

Poker has a large variance. You have to live with it or you can find some other hobby where every hour you invest is worthwhile.
 
Emperor IX

Emperor IX

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Why don't you just see flops and make sure they connect if you're paranoid of getting sucked out on? Otherwise, my advice is precisely what you told me not to say.
 
wsorbust

wsorbust

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Know your opponent. If you know he'll call with nothing to a raise or re-raise, don't push all-in or re-raise if you feel you are sure you will lose to horrible cards. Limp in if you prefer. I'm not saying it's the correct thing to do, but under you dire circumstances which everyone rolls the dice, then don't give them much of a chance to wipe you out and roll the dice preflop. I would say, at least have a pocket pair if you're going to go or call all-in to a villain such as the one's you've describe. Maybe find another game to play at? Remember that preflop hands such as AK and AJ, etc, ARE NOT GOLDEN. Good luck.
 
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MississippiMud

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PATIENCE. Sometimes it will bore you to tears but you have to be disciplined. Use that time your folding folding folding to get some kind of read on them.

Other that that just sit back and roll the dice with them and if it is his turn to buy the beer make sure you drink more than your share. :D
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

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Just a thought:

If these players selected better hands to play against you, and generally improved their play, isn't it likely that you'd actually be making less money and have less of a lead on them than you do now?

Dunno about you, but even though the occasional loss sucks, if somebody's habitually getting all their money in with the odds 70:30 in my favour, I'd wanna be playing in that game every day.

I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I don't think you've got as big a problem as you think you do.

The option of keeping the pots smaller when you're in doubt probably isn't a bad one though if they're just calling stations and you want to minimise your losses. Are they folding their 32o if they don't hit the flop though? If they call with ATK pre-flop but fold when they don't hit the flop, getting them to shove pre-flop when you hold better cards might actually be the most profitable strategy.
 
J

JinxerMan

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I once heard Sammy Farha say it best.. he said he can beat any pro any time... but all these newbies and internet players is a very different story... because they dont know the game or play the odds etc.

And as much as I hate to admit it, one of my favorite statements was made by Phil Helmuth... when he said if there was no Luck in poker he would win every time. I am by far not claiming to be the best lol. But when it comes to my little weekly home tournament, I am. And it seems that the only time I lose is when someone gets lucky. But the worst part is when they get lucky when playing totally idiotic.

Always looking for ways to evolve my game.

Thanks to everyone who has given there thoughts so far.
 
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maltz

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Actually I find the newbie players are still the most profitable. Sure, they might bad beat you more often than others, because their fold button is misprinted as call.

But they also "good call" you more often. They call with mid pair all the way to river. They call with flush draw, straight draw, runner runner draw, Ace high, King high, two over cards... they call your semi bluff, and when you think you are definitely toasted - only to find out that they can't even beat your bluff!
 
KingCurtis

KingCurtis

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yeah youll have crazy players but typicallly you want those calls odds wise atleast..i know what you mean tho you cant outplay them because there either too aggressive or they are calling machines.......i usuually go after these people i mean if i hit my nuts theyll still call and i heve there money truthfully thats probably why your in the lead in your standings
 
zachvac

zachvac

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Look, if all it took to beat good players was to play bad cards and roll the dice with the odds not in your favor, everyone would do it. Everytime all your money is in the pot and you have the better hand, you won. If it's 70-30, then 70% of that pot is yours. Now really it's you have a 70% chance that all of it's yours and a 30% chance that none of it is, but over the long haul you will win 70% of those pots and win money. That's how poker works, regardless on whether you want to hear it or not.
 
p0kertime

p0kertime

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poker will be poker no matter who you ban the donks is why your probally a leader board top dog weed out the donks then you might not be no leaderboard top player %70 donkeys then you'll get over it i never raise with any hand till i see what the table bets are or at lease a peek at the cards for a low price even with AA cause my AA dies so much but i could call a allin but even those are risky with 2-3 out there lol 7-8 any connectors kq qj hell all poker is a game get over it a move on play your best and don't try to enter the lotto with it. scared money never wins
 
ripptyde

ripptyde

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develop your post-flop skills and learn the true value of an unpaired hand vs another unpaired hand and don't be so quick to shove A/Q

If you are both holding anything less than a pocket pair, most of the time you are slightly less than a 3-2 dog and some players (ahem) will call you with rags for the sheer joy of snapping off a big hand...because they have the bankroll to absorb a hit or get knocked out of a tourney they could afford to play 1000 times over.

Best advice I can offer is to be willing to lay down hands you would normally be raising with A/Q, K/J, K/Q or at least be flat calling and not reraising. Position is everything so if you are slamming in a big re-raise over the top of a maniac, not only are you giving up the strength of your hand , but you are inviting a reckless call from someone who clearly has little or no understanding for the essense of holdem....either that or he just doesn't care and is playing for the fun of sucking out on someone.

Doyle Brunson has said that he really only feared 'bad' players.... precisely for that reason I would imagine.
 
C

csvking

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Limp Call or Fold against this kind of play until you KNOW you have him beat or can at least see a flop before you commit all of your chips. The odds will catch up. It is what it is.
 
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