Winning Cards Mucked

[johnny tigre]

I once played a live regular tourney where i reached the final table. I have a good stack and i went heads up with one player with lesser stack.
I cant remember our exact hands but the guy thought i had trips and he had two pairs, but i actually have only a pair of nines. (which i made on the river)
I was bluffing all the way and he thought i made trips and when its time to show he mucked his winning hand.
But his friend who was also seated saw my hand and he immediately picked up the mucked hands and showed the guy that his hand actually beats my hand.
Since i was also new in live games, i gave in and let him take the pot (which actually crippled my stack)
The player beside me, told me that i should have not let the guy take the pot since he already mucked his hand, even if he actually won. He said i should have called the floor and let the TD decide on the issue.
Did i really made a mistake on that one? I was just being honest but my honesty crippled my chances of a bigger winnings on that tourney. I ended up on 6th place but i could have placed higher if i took that pot.
Its true lessons are learned from making mistakes.

 

[wildyetty]

once cards hit the muck they are dead. you were foolish to allow him to take the pot

 

[Svyat66556]

I once played a live regular tourney where i reached the final table. I have a good stack and i went heads up with one player with lesser stack.
I cant remember our exact hands but the guy thought i had trips and he had two pairs, but i actually have only a pair of nines. (which i made on the river)
I was bluffing all the way and he thought i made trips and when its time to show he mucked his winning hand.
But his friend who was also seated saw my hand and he immediately picked up the mucked hands and showed the guy that his hand actually beats my hand.
Since i was also new in live games, i gave in and let him take the pot (which actually crippled my stack)
The player beside me, told me that i should have not let the guy take the pot since he already mucked his hand, even if he actually won. He said i should have called the floor and let the TD decide on the issue.
Did i really made a mistake on that one? I was just being honest but my honesty crippled my chances of a bigger winnings on that tourney. I ended up on 6th place but i could have placed higher if i took that pot.
Its true lessons are learned from making mistakes.

If the Bank still did not pick up , he showed and mucked up and you have shown your cards, victory is awarded for the best combination. Maybe I'm wrong, though his friend had no right to take his cards.

 

[atlantafalcons0]

once cards hit the muck they are dead. you were foolish to allow him to take the pot

This ^

Who's to say they were actually his cards?

 

[johnny tigre]

once cards hit the muck they are dead. you were foolish to allow him to take the pot

I agree, it was a foolish mistake on my part. I was relatively new then and i didnt know exactly all the rules in the game, especially live tournaments.

 

[terryk]

if you don`t know the rules of poker,you should`t be playing.

 

[wildyetty]

This ^

Who's to say they were actually his cards?

he said the villain mucked, you disagree with my statement??? I wasn't being rude just a bad mistake made. I would never refund someone for making a donkey move like that. not even in a friendly home game. Leassons need to be learned. Unfortunately it usually cost you money to learn

 

[atlantafalcons0]

he said the villain mucked, you disagree with my statement??? I wasn't being rude just a bad mistake made. I would never refund someone for making a donkey move like that. not even in a friendly home game. Leassons need to be learned. Unfortunately it usually cost you money to learn

No I totally agree! I was saying he could have pulled two winning cards that weren't his.

 

[milka1605]

His friend did not fair.

 

[cranberry]

In this case, you had to turn to the judges, and to clarify the regulations held the tournament. The discarded cards player - it folded. And the fact that you are bluffing and opponent mucked his hand - there is no need to give a victory, because poker involves bluffing. If all returned by the bank due to the bluff, this is not a game of poker.
The behavior of a man who saw your cards and showed his opponent - it's not sporting behavior and does not fit the etiquette of poker player. Your hole cards - it's just your cards, and you should decide for themselves whom they show !!!
I think a plus in this situation is for you - it is an experience that will further help you to avoid unpleasant situations.

 

[teepack]

I have seen cards retrieved from the muck before if they could easily be identified. How did the other player know he had two pair?

You could have called the floor and he may have ruled in your favor, but it doesn't change the fact you didn't have the best hand.

This is a prime example of why I always show my cards at showdown.

 

[rhombus]

can happen to anyone

 

[PK_ing]

I actually had a conversation with a dealer who said he always leaves his cards face up until the dealer takes them in to reshuffle. Even if the person shows the winning hand, if they throw their cards away after showing and not leaving them face up on the table, you technically win the pot since you have the only hand that is still live.

 

[jokr23]

I would have probably taken the other players advice and called the manger to determine what would happen.

For a few reasons. One was what he/she mentioned. If it was mucked you should have gotten the hand regardless. The hand would be dead and you would have gotten the hand. The other maybe a rule violation occurred because his/her friend touched another players hand. Which I would assume sounds like two players playing one hand. Which I think would be a rule violation as one person per hand touching/revealing a hand. Could be wrong on the last bit.

 

[Jauheni Danilenka]

When folded - is no turning back! They do not play

 

[detroitjunkie]

This post needs clarification. Did the player show his 2 pair? If so it wins even if he shows and mucks...only reason I can see why his friend knew what he had.

If not...then friend gets a penalty for doing this and maybe even ejected.

If the hand is retrievable then there is precedence depending on further information.

Do not show your cards if all others muck. Hold them down until dealer kills all other hands and award you the pot. Most rule sets say you dont have to show here to win

 

[johnny tigre]

The friend was also in the final table and was seated beside him. Apparently the villain showed his card to the friend while thinking about what to do with my bluff.... which he later called.
At showdown, i was first to show and the villain thought i made trips on the river and he mucked his hand.

 

[detroitjunkie]

As long as cards were 100% identifiable many rule sets allow player to change their minds about folding as long as they are not facing a bet or a raise...so I give pot to him and give his friend a 1 or 2 round penalty.

 

[UrsinusMaximus]

can happen to anyone

WSOP 2009 - Phil Ivey Mucks The Winning Hand - YouTube

This story made me think exactly of the Ivey hand, although in this case Ivey wouldn't have realised until someone watching the broadcast pointed it out to him

 

[teepack]

He didn't fold. He tossed his cards into the muck at the conclusion of the hand after his opponent had shown his cards. If he had done this after the turn, then there is no way he would have been allowed to retrieve his cards. Or if he had done this on the river after his opponent bet, then his hand would have been dead. But since all action was complete and it was down to the showdown, then there is precedence for allowing a player to retrieve his cards from the muck if the cards are easily identifiable and he thinks he threw away a winning hand or if the dealer dragged them into the muck by mistake, which happens. Card protectors, people.

The involvement of the third player who told him he had the winning hand could be a complicating factor and could violate the one player per hand rule. That's why it would have been a good idea to call the floor.

 

[rock0001]

if villain mucks his hand then his cards are dead and you have won the pot no matter what villain hand was. what i dont understand is why villain thought you have made trips on the river without even looking at your cards to verify it. do you tell him you have trips or he just have the feeling he was beaten by trips? either way his hand is dead and you should have claim the pot.

 

[detroitjunkie]

if villain mucks his hand then his cards are dead and you have won the pot no matter what villain hand was. what i dont understand is why villain thought you have made trips on the river without even looking at your cards to verify it. do you tell him you have trips or he just have the feeling he was beaten by trips? either way his hand is dead and you should have claim the pot.

No. See above

 

[Masi2197]

It is good to read these conversations so as not to make those mistakes, but which cases are seen in poker

 

[itarus]

It is good to read these conversations so as not to make those mistakes, but which cases are seen in poker

Oh sure. You can learn.

I was shocked but of such an act. - It's a foul!
and how could allow of the tournament the organizers ?!