Where did I go wrong? Ugh

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Mdf1992

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Hi All,

So I'm sitting in the UTG position in 6 handed 1 cent/2 cent with 9cTc.

__

I open with a raise to 5 cents.

Call, call, button folds, sb calls, bb calls.

Flop comes Th, Ts, Ks.

Sb checks, Bb checks...and then I check, and then other player after me checks.

Turn comes Jh.

Sb bets 11 cents, Bb calls, I call, other guy folds.

River comes 2s.

Sb checks, Bb bets 5 cents, I raise to 22 cents.

Sb folds. Bb calls and shows Js, 9s for a flush.

__

Now looking back at this hand, I f*cking hate how I played it. Number one, I probably should have just bet the flop? I don't know, I mean the 10 with the King, maybe someone could already be nearing a straight. Also two spades I didn't even glance twice at. I guess if there are 2+ of the same suit should I always maybe bet the flop there cause there is that possibility? I'm just realizing and reading in general that it is better to not slow-play in micros.

Secondly, with the turn being a J and also a heart, that gives for two possible flush draws now AND also possible straight draw, so maybe I should have re-raised here?

Ugh, gosh. Any advice or input here would be appreciated. I'm pretty much a noob, just been playing for like 3-6 months.

Thanks for reading if you did!

Mark
 
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glebchekotin

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Did u think about his flush before river?
 
Austria7

Austria7

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A couple of fundamental questions. Imagine you received Js 9s. So on the flop you get a gutshot straight draw and flush draw and straight flush draw with the Qs, on top of that you get a free card for the turn - a perfect hand course for you. :) Now you get the middle pair on the turn with the Jh and still have the option of a straight flush, a full house with another jack or a flush or a straight (the straight would be terrible because every ace would make the better straight).

Would you fold your hand against a big bet? What if you opened the pot with Kc Tc - WOW ... a flopped full house. Another hand of the opponents could be Ah Qh with the possibilities of the nut straight or backdoor nut flush and even backdoor royal flush. So there are several possible hands of opponents that can really get you into trouble. If the board turns into a disaster, you could check-call the hand to the end or even fold it. :eek:
 
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fundiver199

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Next time please post in cash game hand analysis, and if possible find the hand history on the poker site or in your tracker and convert it using the hand converter here on CC site. Then its much easier for us to figure out, what was going on, and give qualified feedback. But anyways on to the hand:

Preflop
T9s is kind of the bottom of the range, you should open UTG at 6-max, but its ok.

Flop
I would certainly have C-bet this. The pot is very multiway, and you smashed the heck out of the board. Sure from time to time you will be coolered by AT, KT, QT or JT, but you block all those hands, and there are so many other hands, they can have and either pay you with, or that has some kind of equity, which you want them to give up by folding. Slowplaying here is an absolute disaster, and I also dont want to go for some fancy check-raise, because people tend to be rather conservative about betting in multiway pots. And rightfully so by the way.

Turn
This was already a somewhat bad card for you, since now AQ and Q9 have a straight, and a bunch of other hands picked up a straighdraw. An A or Q on the river will now put out a 1-liner and pretty much kill your hand or at least your action. I think, raising now is almost an overplay, so as played I do agree with your decision to just call. I am also happy to at least get rid of the guys behind. That makes things a bit more simple on the river.

River
Now the flushdraw completes. SB, who bet on the turn, checks, and BB, who called on the turn, bets 5c into a pot of 58c. This is a silly and meaningless bet, and as played I would raise the river for value trying to get a crying call from hands like KQ, KJ, AJ, QJ etc. I do think, I would go a little bigger though like 30-40c. If they are going to call 23c, they are also going to call 30-40c, and a larger sizes actually makes it look more like, you could be bluffing.

Results
Flopping trips or two pair and then getting outdrawn by a straight or flush is always annoying, but its part of poker, and it can not be avoided. Actually you kind of lost the minimum in this hand, because you checked the flop and raised to small on the river. Its not like, he would have folded a 12 out combodraw to normal bets on the flop and turn, or that he should even fold. So this unfortunate outcome would happen even, if you had played the hand better.

It does feel silly though to just passively check and call, when you have the best hand, and then only take aggressive action, once you are beat. So this is probably, what bother you about the hand. And it is indeed a sign, you misplayed the hand. The issue in this hand is not betting the flop. If you bet flop and bet turn, you can actually check back on a bad river card like this. In that way you still lose 2 bets, but the money went in, when you were still ahead. And basically that is the whole goal in poker. Who wins at the end does not even matter, since its just short term variance.
 
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Mdf1992

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A couple of fundamental questions. Imagine you received Js 9s. So on the flop you get a gutshot straight draw and flush draw and straight flush draw with the Qs, on top of that you get a free card for the turn - a perfect hand course for you. :) Now you get the middle pair on the turn with the Jh and still have the option of a straight flush, a full house with another jack or a flush or a straight (the straight would be terrible because every ace would make the better straight).

Would you fold your hand against a big bet? What if you opened the pot with Kc Tc - WOW ... a flopped full house. Another hand of the opponents could be Ah Qh with the possibilities of the nut straight or backdoor nut flush and even backdoor royal flush. So there are several possible hands of opponents that can really get you into trouble. If the board turns into a disaster, you could check-call the hand to the end or even fold it. :eek:


Thank you so much for your insight. Yeah...this is helpful to look at it like that. I guess I always kind of hope/assume that there is no way that someone has exactly those couple of hands that could really screw me. But I have to think about it like—they are hands that are in their range easily and I have to take it into account.
 
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Mdf1992

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Next time please post in cash game hand analysis, and if possible find the hand history on the poker site or in your tracker and convert it using the hand converter here on CC site. Then its much easier for us to figure out, what was going on, and give qualified feedback. But anyways on to the hand:

Preflop
T9s is kind of the bottom of the range, you should open UTG at 6-max, but its ok.

Flop
I would certainly have C-bet this. The pot is very multiway, and you smashed the heck out of the board. Sure from time to time you will be coolered by AT, KT, QT or JT, but you block all those hands, and there are so many other hands, they can have and either pay you with, or that has some kind of equity, which you want them to give up by folding. Slowplaying here is an absolute disaster, and I also dont want to go for some fancy check-raise, because people tend to be rather conservative about betting in multiway pots. And rightfully so by the way.

Turn
This was already a somewhat bad card for you, since now AQ and Q9 have a straight, and a bunch of other hands picked up a straighdraw. An A or Q on the river will now put out a 1-liner and pretty much kill your hand or at least your action. I think, raising now is almost an overplay, so as played I do agree with your decision to just call. I am also happy to at least get rid of the guys behind. That makes things a bit more simple on the river.

River
Now the flushdraw completes. SB, who bet on the turn, checks, and BB, who called on the turn, bets 5c into a pot of 58c. This is a silly and meaningless bet, and as played I would raise the river for value trying to get a crying call from hands like KQ, KJ, AJ, QJ etc. I do think, I would go a little bigger though like 30-40c. If they are going to call 23c, they are also going to call 30-40c, and a larger sizes actually makes it look more like, you could be bluffing.

Results
Flopping trips or two pair and then getting outdrawn by a straight or flush is always annoying, but its part of poker, and it can not be avoided. Actually you kind of lost the minimum in this hand, because you checked the flop and raised to small on the river. Its not like, he would have folded a 12 out combodraw to normal bets on the flop and turn, or that he should even fold. So this unfortunate outcome would happen even, if you had played the hand better.

It does feel silly though to just passively check and call, when you have the best hand, and then only take aggressive action, once you are beat. So this is probably, what bother you about the hand. And it is indeed a sign, you misplayed the hand. The issue in this hand is not betting the flop. If you bet flop and bet turn, you can actually check back on a bad river card like this. In that way you still lose 2 bets, but the money went in, when you were still ahead. And basically that is the whole goal in poker. Who wins at the end does not even matter, since its just short term variance.


Ah wow thank you. I didn’t know there was a hand converter thing. And okay—I’ll post in that proper section next time.

Re your notes on the flop—yeah that makes sense. The fact that the pot is multi-way and so there are more possibilities and problems. I should’ve bet the friggen flop.

And ah wow yeah I see with regard to the turn why you would’ve just called and that makes sense...kind of getting into dangerous territory.

Re the river—gotcha. Bigger size makes sense.

And wow yeah that is really insightful, the idea of getting the money in when I’m supposed to and when I have equity and charging people for draws. But wow haha that’s an interesting way to look at it—that I actually lost less money than I would’ve if I played it correctly lol. But wow yeah thank you so much for your in depth review. Very helpful!

Mark
 
eberetta1

eberetta1

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You are lucky this hand did not cost u even more than you lost. on the flop , I hate giving away a free card, so I would have raised.
The only problem was the turn provided 2 suits that people could be chasing a flush.

And on the river, the card allowed someone a chance to catch a straight, a flush, or a full house. So on the river, with three of a kind tens, I would have called the 5 cent raise , instead of raising to 11 cents.
 
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