Get out when you "think" you are beat?

S

scubed

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In freerolls I frequently witness this scenario on the river: A Villain player goes all-in. The Hero opponent thinks for a few seconds (maybe even uses his timebank) then "hero" calls only to lose to the EXACT hand the Villain is representing.

MOST of the time, when betting, our opponents DO have something. Why do we often think that they are bluffing or trying to "run us out" of the pot? It seems so easy - a little voice inside telling (sometimes YELLING) us to fold. Yet, with a marginal hand, we call.

When something inside (intuition) says "get out" - even when I can't explain it - I think I am probably better off folding over the long term. What are your thoughts?
 
najjah166

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In freerolls I frequently witness this scenario on the river: A Villain player goes all-in. The Hero opponent thinks for a few seconds (maybe even uses his timebank) then "hero" calls only to lose to the EXACT hand the Villain is representing.

MOST of the time, when betting, our opponents DO have something. Why do we often think that they are bluffing or trying to "run us out" of the pot? It seems so easy - a little voice inside telling (sometimes YELLING) us to fold. Yet, with a marginal hand, we call.

When something inside (intuition) says "get out" - even when I can't explain it - I think I am probably better off folding over the long term. What are your thoughts?
this situation I often saw, and the little voice tells me you'll still lose, and I ended up losing
 
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I lose most often when I have a high pocket pair; go all-in because someone pushes the pot and usually the pot is at least multi-way. It's hard to address this issue on a freeroll when so many people don't have anything to lose. I look at it like a opportunity to stack up or move on to the next tourney. Ideally you would want to play post flop, but it indeed is tough to fold pre-flop when sitting on QQ - AA.


If you don't want to take the risk, building your stack and waiting a few rounds may be better to your risk/tolerance level. You will still have pushers, but at least you prolong your play, get to see a few community cards, and may be able to have chips left over if you lose
 
Martin Carreira

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I think many times it is because we are playing free tournaments where many players just for fun or because they do not want to play it, they bet on all hands, they go with any trash for what it costs to believe much more than they are doing in the correct way And also pride plays an important role when it comes to folding and often plays against us. Regards!

 
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Why get out when it improves your opportunity to win?
Why play when it threatens your success?
 
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It seems to me that here most of all you need to think about your cards and chances of winning,because the players are different and the cards with which they go all-in is difficult to predict! With good chances I answer, and often lose, but lose with the best cards-and this is what pisses me off! That my AA are losing 27o! chances in pokerstars-almost nothing not mean - sorely tested!
 
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When I do it (which is frequently still - I'm working on it!) either it's because I have winner's tilt from snapping off someone donk-shoving 63o with my JJ (because I play in freerolls), and I assume everyone else at the table is a maniac too, OR I talk myself into it - "but what if you're wrong! look how many chips you'd have! Surely your hero call will look brilliant!"

It stings especially when it's a well-sized value bet on the river and I'm short stacked, holding some middling hand - I don't know why I keep doing that to myself.
 
Gohaku94

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That scenario is nothing like that. When you see a pro player doing that is because they have the right odds to call in that spot. And that is pretty easy to get when in some situations you only need your opponent to bluff like 10% of the time for you to make a profit which is crazy, most people bluff at least 10% of the time when they get to river with the betting lead
 
rikisrakis

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There are a lot of variables to consider in these situations, and most of the time there is no clear right answer. But what I think is most important is that you can look at the state of the game and the information you have as objectively as possible, because it is easy to fall victim to your own psychological bias when making a call or fold decision.

What I mean by this is that if you do not actively train yourself to think otherwise, you will probably have an innate feeling that folding is automatically "losing", and because the human brain is hard wired for loss aversion this will make it very hard to stomach a fold most of the time. However, as most of us know, often the truth is that the losing play is to call. If you can keep that in consideration, I find it helps to resist the urge to simply hero call impulsively.

Personally, I approach these decisions with folding as the default; i.e., I fold unless I can convince myself I have a good reason to call, not the other way around. I need to have decent information on my opponent's behavior and range, a story that makes sense, and/or just plain old equity before I will talk myself into making this type of call.
 
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People often underestimate freerolls for obvious reasons.For example you can lose a couple hours playing a freeroll and you dont win anything.On the other hand everybody are attracted with thew freerolls cause you dont haav nothing to pay and you can some money but often they lose interest.Your decision is the right one cause almost nobody will go with marginal hand if they invested fr example a 100$ for the buy-in.
 
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CallmeFloppy

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I think because we have seen too many times people doing with same thing with nothing, or perhaps there have been 5 or 6 hands in a row that somebody has gone all in (could be a different player each time) and talk themselves into a call. Perhaps they are likely beat but since its a freeroll and it doesn't cost them a buy in if they lose, that its worth a shot at doubling up.
 
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I've found that as well; most people don't lie. And it's in your interest to assume they've got something. As far as I know, nobody's made it to the top because they bluffed all the way there.

If they are indeed bluffing, still feel good about folding. No big deal. You'll get them back when you're more confident in your hand.
 
This Fish Chums

This Fish Chums

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In freerolls I frequently witness this scenario on the river: A Villain player goes all-in.

Yet, with a marginal hand, we call.

When something inside (intuition) says "get out" - even when I can't explain it - I think I am probably better off folding over the long term. What are your thoughts?

You're leaving out a whole lot of variables here that may explain why calls are being made, but one mistake you may be making is comparing what others are thinking to what you are thinking. I know I've been guilty of going against my intuition like this, but that does not mean everyone has the instinct to fold and is going against it. A lot of people most likely have the instinct to actually make the call and are trying to fight it because intellectually they know it's the wrong move, but then give into the urge to make the call. I've been in that situation as well. It often depends on how I'm feeling emotionally as to which internal voice is talking to me and telling me which way to go.

Then there is the aspect of "the EXACT hand the Villain is representing." Let's think about that one a bit more and put it into the context of an actual hand. Let's say the river brings 4 to a flush and someone shoves all in on you instead of making a moderate bet for value. Is there all-in actually telling you they have a high flush, or does the all-in maybe indicate to you they may be representing a high flush while holding just a pair. In many cases, aren't there players who would value bet instead of shove in that situation? I think that's the biggest aspect of making a "hero call" is the fact that the shove can look like an attempt to push you off a hand in many of those situations.

My final point is something you haven't considered and that is flat out greed. When people look at the size of the pot and see a huge pot (especially if they will have chips left) they tend to get greedy and make calls they shouldn't. It's ironic, but in a game which is only about taking other people's money you need to eliminate the greed instinct to become successful.
 
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agriggy

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In freerolls I frequently witness this scenario on the river: A Villain player goes all-in. The Hero opponent thinks for a few seconds (maybe even uses his timebank) then "hero" calls only to lose to the EXACT hand the Villain is representing.

MOST of the time, when betting, our opponents DO have something. Why do we often think that they are bluffing or trying to "run us out" of the pot? It seems so easy - a little voice inside telling (sometimes YELLING) us to fold. Yet, with a marginal hand, we call.

When something inside (intuition) says "get out" - even when I can't explain it - I think I am probably better off folding over the long term. What are your thoughts?

When the Poker Gods are telling you to fold, fold.
 
DanyDGD

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Making a call in the river where a player goes all depends on the trajectory of the bets and knowing if your hand is worth or not to make a call but good here would enter the factor in poker as it is in chess you have to get ahead of the enemy from the flop by deciding if you are going to venture to an all in river.
 
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