Starting Hands Guide

[SocialBombast]

I'm only about two months into serious online play so I still keep my browser open to the Cardschat starting hands guide. I noticed J-8o is playable in late position but Q-8o is considered never playable. Why? both have potential for Q high straights and if anything Q-8 seems even better due to the higher pair when you hit. What am I missing here?

 

[Spaceman]

My explanation is that with J8 you have to hit a 10 and a 9 to have an open ended straight draw, while with Q8, you have to hit a 10, a 9 but also a J. So you have better odds with J8 than Q8.

 

[SocialBombast]

My explanation is that in J8 you have to hit a 10 and a 9 to have an open ended straight draw, while in Q8, you have to hit a 10, a 9 but also a J. So you have better odds with J8 than Q8.

Interesting. So the unlikely event of having an open ended straight draw is stronger than being able to pair up higher.

 

[SocialBombast]

And thank you

 

[Spaceman]

Interesting. So the unlikely event of having an open ended straight draw is stronger than being able to pair up higher.

Yep, because with J8, you can make a straight two ways either with 9 10 Q or with 9 10 7. With Q8, you can make a straight with 9 10 J only.

 

[playinggameswithu]

Don't play 3 gappers they have reverse implied odds only one straight also. Dont play J8 itll lose you big pots. Play 11% to 15% of hands cash game.

 

[SocialBombast]

Don't play 3 gappers they have reverse implied odds only one straight also. Dont play J8 itll lose you big pots. Play 11% to 15% of hands cash game.

Totally. I wouldn't play either of those hands. Unfortunately I'm back in freerolls-only mode again. I have a no depositing rule. Lost all my freeroll and cash money in a run of bad beats last week.

15 percent of cash hands tops? I have to develop more discipline. I'm hovering around 20.

What are reverse implied odds?

 

[CallmeFloppy]

Reverse implied odds’ is the term used to describe the odds in poker that a player will lose even if their hand is completed by the draw, because another player holds a hand that ranks higher.

 

[SocialBombast]

Reverse implied odds’ is the term used to describe the odds in poker that a player will lose even if their hand is completed by the draw, because another player holds a hand that ranks higher.

Ok, so 7-J gets beat when it hits 89T because someone else could have the JQ?

 

[Malnitruth]

I'm only about two months into serious online play so I still keep my browser open to the Cardschat starting hands guide. I noticed J-8o is playable in late position but Q-8o is considered never playable. Why? both have potential for Q high straights and if anything Q-8 seems even better due to the higher pair when you hit. What am I missing here?

Q high straight easily mucked with any KQ's and also not in great shape with that 8 kicker to be calling off river value bets...

 

[SocialBombast]

Q high straight easily mucked with any KQ's and also not in great shape with that 8 kicker to be calling off river value bets...

I see. Hitting that Q straight seems like a good way to lose a boatload of money. I'm also losing too much when I have the weaker full house.

 

[PSSucks]

I just ran across this chart again after seeing it many years ago and have to say that I consistently defy some of what's suggest on it. For example, it advises folding pairs of JJ and lower when in the early position, but I just can't do it and will try to limp-in, hoping to see a flop cheaply and maybe hit a set. I've never really kept good track of how that strategy works out for me but will perhaps try playing completely according to the chart for a while.

So I was just wondering if most people play according to the recommendations, generally ignore it, or maybe just don't agree with some of it.

 

[wacosteel]

I would raise with Q-8o on the button, but I'm never calling with it, unless I'm bb and only sb has raised.

I do think it's playable on the button if no one else has raised. This is one of the worst hands I will play, and only in the right spots.

 

[playinggameswithu]

I see. Hitting that Q straight seems like a good way to lose a boatload of money. I'm also losing too much when I have the weaker full house.

It won't happen often but when it does it well makes up for the times it didn't.

 

[playinggameswithu]

I just ran across this chart again after seeing it many years ago and have to say that I consistently defy some of what's suggest on it. For example, it advises folding pairs of JJ and lower when in the early position, but I just can't do it and will try to limp-in, hoping to see a flop cheaply and maybe hit a set. I've never really kept good track of how that strategy works out for me but will perhaps try playing completely according to the chart for a while.

So I was just wondering if most people play according to the recommendations, generally ignore it, or maybe just don't agree with some of it.

I play pairs for sets from any position against any player as long as the implied odds are their. Pocket pairs are a blessing. The chart is generic dogmatic amateur hour.

 

[spr0ck3t]

Ok, so 7-J gets beat when it hits 89T because someone else could have the JQ?

Another way to understand reverse implied odds (because 3 different places have drilled it into my head this week) is that you're playing to win a small pot but lose a large pot.

If it comes 3 to a straight, you're not usually going to get called by 2 pair or an overpair or whatever - the straight is too obvious. When you do get called, or have to call, it's going to be from at Least your straight (chopped pot) if not a better straight (flush, full house, etc).

You can't win a lot of money - but you can lose a lot of it.

 

[rigor mortis]

It's all down to the difference in the gaps. I would not play either, however if I was in the BB and only one other in the pot, I would limp in with J8o.