Sit 'n Go Strategy

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Zer0-0uts

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Sit 'n Go Strategy Expert Advice For Beating One-Table Poker Tournaments by Collin Moshman

Who has read it? I picked it up yesterday and am now 94 pages into it. Some of the ideas and concepts in this book are good, and I can get behind them. Some of the things Collin is instructing his readers to do is completely contrary to everything I have learned and believe about how to play poker. Throughout the first 94 pages Collin repeatedly gives hand examples and details how the hands should be played. One of the things he keeps on reintegrating is to change your pre flop bet sizes depending on what your hole cards are. He does not say, "Ok now with kings you always raise 4x and with 8s raise 2.5x." He does give hand examples throughout the book and so far I have noticed that he is saying to raise different amounts and it always changes by hand strength.

This makes it really hard for me to get behind what he is saying. Has anyone else read the entire book through? Maybe I am just not far enough along in the book and I will start to see how this would work out, but so far when I read that I should come in for a 2.5x the BB raise with 88 and I should come in for 3 to 4x the BB with KK it screams WRONG!!!! Am I missing something in my play? I will admit that bet sizing is not something that I have ever really studied. I have always kept my sizing pretty much the same, albeit I do tailor my bet size to each individual table I am at and according to the specific blind sizes at the time of the tournament. I always bet the same though. I will come in for the exact same amount regardless of what two cards I hold. I do this so you will not know if I have 88 or KK or 67s. What am I missing here? Why would Moshman tell his readers to vary their bet sizes?
 
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1k95

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Sit 'n Go Strategy Expert Advice For Beating One-Table Poker Tournaments by Collin Moshman

Who has read it? I picked it up yesterday and am now 94 pages into it. Some of the ideas and concepts in this book are good, and I can get behind them. Some of the things Collin is instructing his readers to do is completely contrary to everything I have learned and believe about how to play poker. Throughout the first 94 pages Collin repeatedly gives hand examples and details how the hands should be played. One of the things he keeps on reintegrating is to change your pre flop bet sizes depending on what your hole cards are. He does not say, "Ok now with kings you always raise 4x and with 8s raise 2.5x." He does give hand examples throughout the book and so far I have noticed that he is saying to raise different amounts and it always changes by hand strength.

This makes it really hard for me to get behind what he is saying. Has anyone else read the entire book through? Maybe I am just not far enough along in the book and I will start to see how this would work out, but so far when I read that I should come in for a 2.5x the BB raise with 88 and I should come in for 3 to 4x the BB with KK it screams WRONG!!!! Am I missing something in my play? I will admit that bet sizing is not something that I have ever really studied. I have always kept my sizing pretty much the same, albeit I do tailor my bet size to each individual table I am at and according to the specific blind sizes at the time of the tournament. I always bet the same though. I will come in for the exact same amount regardless of what two cards I hold. I do this so you will not know if I have 88 or KK or 67s. What am I missing here? Why would Moshman tell his readers to vary their bet sizes?
Is there a link to the book?
 
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LuisBoaC

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I read that I should come in for a 2.5x the BB raise with 88 and I should come in for 3 to 4x the BB with KK


I've read the book a few times recently and I definitely think it's helped me.
There are more factors to consider when open-raising than just concealing your hand. I don't know to which hands you're referring here but the part of the book it's in might shed some light here. You have to think about what you're trying to achieve with your bets. How far into the tournament are you and what is your stack size relative to everyone else's and the blinds? What position are you in at the table?
With the 88 you could be late in the game trying to steal from the button against 2 tight players in the blinds so only risking 2.5BB could likely win you a small but valuable pot but not cripple you if they call and high cards that are in their range come on the flop forcing you to fold.
With the KK maybe you're early in the tournament and in early position so you want to thin the field a little to strengthen your KK, get rid of any pesky A-x hands for example, whilst also building a bigger pot in case the board comes dry and with no A, or you get lucky and hit another K.
Any poker book I'm reading has generally been well-reviewed/recommended and written by someone with consistent results; Moshman's Sit 'n Go strategy is no different. If you have better results than Collin Moshman why read his book? If you are reading to improve then keep an open-mind, perhaps try his strategies and see your results. Read another well-recommended book by a different successful player (I've moved onto Harrington on Holdem and love it so far) and see how their advice compares to Moshman's.
If I were you I'd stick with the book. Good luck.
 
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Zer0-0uts

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Oh hey hello,

Welcome to CardsChat. This tread is over a year old. I totally forgot it existed lol. Perhaps i should read the book again with over a years worth of new prospective.

:evil:Zer0:evil:
 
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LuisBoaC

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I'm intrigued, one year on are you varying your raises or still open-raising everything the same amount? And what kind of results have you been getting?
 
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Zer0-0uts

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One year in I am varying my opening raise size. I am only varying it based on my stack size though. I am leaning more towards raising according to my stack size as described in Jonathan Little's, "Mastering Small Stakes Hold'Em. I do not vary my opening raise size within that system though, unless I feel like the people at my table are clueless as to what I am doing and why I am doing it. I will however vary my 3 bet sizing depending on what I am trying to accomplish in a multi way preflop pot.
 
chatocham

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All these informations are very important for beginners like all of us.
 
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Am887

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Sit 'n Go Strategy Expert Advice For Beating One-Table Poker Tournaments by Collin Moshman

Who has read it? I picked it up yesterday and am now 94 pages into it. Some of the ideas and concepts in this book are good, and I can get behind them. Some of the things Collin is instructing his readers to do is completely contrary to everything I have learned and believe about how to play poker. Throughout the first 94 pages Collin repeatedly gives hand examples and details how the hands should be played. One of the things he keeps on reintegrating is to change your pre flop bet sizes depending on what your hole cards are. He does not say, "Ok now with kings you always raise 4x and with 8s raise 2.5x." He does give hand examples throughout the book and so far I have noticed that he is saying to raise different amounts and it always changes by hand strength.

This makes it really hard for me to get behind what he is saying. Has anyone else read the entire book through? Maybe I am just not far enough along in the book and I will start to see how this would work out, but so far when I read that I should come in for a 2.5x the BB raise with 88 and I should come in for 3 to 4x the BB with KK it screams WRONG!!!! Am I missing something in my play? I will admit that bet sizing is not something that I have ever really studied. I have always kept my sizing pretty much the same, albeit I do tailor my bet size to each individual table I am at and according to the specific blind sizes at the time of the tournament. I always bet the same though. I will come in for the exact same amount regardless of what two cards I hold. I do this so you will not know if I have 88 or KK or 67s. What am I missing here? Why would Moshman tell his readers to vary their bet sizes?



I reading and reading in the forum here, but didn't find any starting point to get an understanding. I think a little bit different, what doesn't means it's better.

So in my modest opinion about SNGs, I wouldn't play one table SNGs. Unless it's knockout and minimum midstakes. Let's say, 5 -20$ Buy in.

But in a one table SNG, I honestly recommend to play abc poker. After 5 rounds u definitely know against who u play. When to shove and when to fold.
I would also raise big enough, when I raise. Playing only for entire stacks. Means go for 2 streets. Get him on turn in a all in spot/decision.
Play boom or bust. When u are tablecaptain u can do what you want (almost).
The reason is simple. U got only this table. The opponents see what you did and start to"think twice" what your action mean.
BUT I would do it only in micro stakes.
But as I already said: I wouldn't play one table SNGs, because it would takes me to long to make money. Just not to go broke, is not an intention (for me). From rakeback to live ? Also no.
To get the maximum profit of amount, time and effort I would only play mtt-SNG .

So I'm looking for an aggressive strategy -discussions about mtt-SNG/knockout.

Yes, I know.... think in the long term.

But as Jordan Belfort already said: " Get rich. And do it quick."

If u guys have an opinion about it, let me know please.

:)
 
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I dont remember Colin advocating changing bet sizes based on hole cards, what I do remember is that he varies his bet sizing according to position and the size of the blinds. At the opening level he may be opening to 3bbs and at higher blind levels he may raise to 2.2bbs. The other thing to remember is that he plays stakes where the other players pay very close attention to bet sizing - at lower stakes you can do more exploitative bet sizing. If you still have questions, I would just shoot him a private message telling him you have a question about his book, he is a super nice guy.
 
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kolenval

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his strategy a little dated. His "Heads-up" is very good book
 
sarjdgo

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Thank you all for your answers. I know this is a very old thread, but I preffer continue topic here and dont open another post.

Im a micro sng player at PS (9man normal/turbo), and I want to know what do u think about this book in this levels.

I readed a comment in goodreads that said "If you are a micro stakes player in PS SnG, dont read this book".

Why do you think about this comment?

I just got the book few days ago and will start reading it anyway, today, right now.

Im at MTT in GGnetwork, of course the money is much easier to win at micro MTT vs micro SnG, but since i got the rakeback offer of 40% in PS, i started grind them again.

The 40% RB will end at this month, and its supposed, after the 3 months of try it in some accounts, a new RB model will be announced.

If they still offer this 40%+ RB (40% directly + chests), i maybe will go back to SnG at stars.

Why that guy on goodreads warned about this book to micro sng ps players???
 
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fundiver199

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This book is from 2007, so naturally games have evolved quite a bit in the meantime. Collin Moshman himself has written here in CC forum, that he advice people to focus more on his and Katies 30 day course, since its more targeted to the way, modern games play. Obviously the fundamentals like pot odds and combos never change, but strategy advice from 14 years ago will often be outdated today.
 
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bapfel

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This book is from 2007, so naturally games have evolved quite a bit in the meantime. Collin Moshman himself has written here in CC forum, that he advice people to focus more on his and Katies 30 day course, since its more targeted to the way, modern games play. Obviously the fundamentals like pot odds and combos never change, but strategy advice from 14 years ago will often be outdated today.


I agree, I read the book, and he helped me to get better results, but I also realised the Micro SnGs I play are often many more agressive and often it is not possible to follow his rules when you wait two many rounds for the monster pocket cards..
 
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Sagory

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I don't know the book, but on entry level bet size seems to have no influence. you get called regardless of betsize and/or position.
I do not have much experience on higher levels, but if ou don't play against the same opponents, they don't know wh you are betting different sizes.
When you bet more with better hands you hopefull get less opponents andget more when you are winning. Isn't that what we want, less opponents with good gards and a multiway pot with speculative hands?
 
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DonkArmyFish

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Game had evolved so much that I dare say the book could be used as maybe some basic fundamentals but other wise it would be almost obsolete.

PS. you never want to play in a way such as 'King, ok now raise 4x' your opp. will figure you out in no time.
 
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Murph1969

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Sit 'n Go Strategy Expert Advice For Beating One-Table Poker Tournaments by Collin Moshman

Who has read it? I picked it up yesterday and am now 94 pages into it. Some of the ideas and concepts in this book are good, and I can get behind them. Some of the things Collin is instructing his readers to do is completely contrary to everything I have learned and believe about how to play poker. Throughout the first 94 pages Collin repeatedly gives hand examples and details how the hands should be played. One of the things he keeps on reintegrating is to change your pre flop bet sizes depending on what your hole cards are. He does not say, "Ok now with kings you always raise 4x and with 8s raise 2.5x." He does give hand examples throughout the book and so far I have noticed that he is saying to raise different amounts and it always changes by hand strength.

This makes it really hard for me to get behind what he is saying. Has anyone else read the entire book through? Maybe I am just not far enough along in the book and I will start to see how this would work out, but so far when I read that I should come in for a 2.5x the BB raise with 88 and I should come in for 3 to 4x the BB with KK it screams WRONG!!!! Am I missing something in my play? I will admit that bet sizing is not something that I have ever really studied. I have always kept my sizing pretty much the same, albeit I do tailor my bet size to each individual table I am at and according to the specific blind sizes at the time of the tournament. I always bet the same though. I will come in for the exact same amount regardless of what two cards I hold. I do this so you will not know if I have 88 or KK or 67s. What am I missing here? Why would Moshman tell his readers to vary their bet sizes?


I read it. Didn’t help me at all. Of course, no poker instruction I have read has helped me.
 
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fundiver199

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I read it. Didn’t help me at all. Of course, no poker instruction I have read has helped me.

Why dont you share some more hand histories, and ideally some that are a little more complex than getting QQ all in preflop?
 
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juntao

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more or less the strategy now is get up really quickly and sit out 75% of the tournament
 
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denis_og79

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be as patient as possible, and select your cards very well.
 
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