Should you fold A10o UTG in a 6 Handed Game?

C

ChuckNola

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Simple question. Let’s have a healthy discussion Feel free to explain your point of view respectfully.
 
Aguimonteiro

Aguimonteiro

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To evaluate we need more information.
How were the bets?
Your stack?
Start, middle or end of the game?
 
okeedokalee

okeedokalee

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Tommy Angelo, (google him) offers a method of designing Auto-Fold Ranges.
In early position UTG ATo is a fold.

here's something else I found, posted by jcgrind:




OPENING RANGES
UTG: 99+, AJo+, ATs+, KQs, *77-88,
MP: 99+, ATo+, ATs+, KQs+, *77-88, QJs-KJs
CO: 66+, ATo+, A8s+, suited broadway, KQo, *KTo-KJo, QJo
Btn: CO range, + all PP, all sc's 67+, all one gappers 68+ *any two if blinds f2steal>80%
SB: 66+, ATo+, A9s+, QJs/o+, *any two if BB f2steal>70%
BB: purely dependent on who raised. UTG range basically vs anyone other than Btn, SB. Btn range vs
anyone else.

*Play if table is passive. I tend to go by whether the people left to act have a 3b stat of less than
8% = passive.
Obviously this is super broad and changes on the table dynamic but its a solid guidline to follow when 12-24
tabling
Never call 3bs unless ESS makes sense to do so. No set mining. basically never playing out of blinds unless I'm 3beting.Have a big emphasis on looking for mass multitabling nits who I can 3b light, and 3beting as light as KJs vs the typical fishtard population for value.

As for 3beting;
IP:
- AA: 4b v nit, flat 3b vs lagtard
- KK: same as AA
- QQ: flat 3b, adjust based on texture post
- JJ: same as QQ
- TT: 4b shove vs guys with a bigger 3b range than 8.5%, 4b/fold vs guys with lower than 8.5%
- AK: 4b/6b vs guys with a bigger 3b range than 3%, 4b/fold vs guys with lower than 3%
OOP:
- AA: 3b/5b shove
- KK: same as AA
- QQ: 3b/flat 4b, shove non AK flop
- JJ: 3b/fold
- TT: 3b/fold
-AK: 3b/fold
Imo, most of your mistakes and losses will come from postflop play, but at least this will help you have a better time post flop, by setting yourself up better preflop. With experience and time, as you develop into a really competent poker player, you will find that it honestly barely matters how you
play preflop (within reason ofcourse) at these levels.
 
Last edited:
P

popstani

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A10o is known as a trouble hand, but I will go with min raise, try to see flop, and go from there, and if someone 3bets me, I would fold
 
F

fundiver199

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Cash games usually play without antes, and in that situation ATo should be a default fold with 5 players left to act behind us. Tournaments are different though, because they usually have antes, and then you dont need quite a much equity when called, because there is that extra dead money in the pot to fight for. So in tournaments I will usually open ATo with 5 players left to act. I will also look at, who is behind though. If there is a 3-bet monkey on one of the 3 seats to my left, thats for sure going to turn me off, especially if he has me covered.
 
Aleks75

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Hi!:)
AT with utg -many will say that you should not even enter the game with a limp, because this is the most unpleasant hand.If the table is passive, then I go in with a raise(there is a potential), otherwise I fold.:(
 
killing_random

killing_random

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If I being dead on cards too long and there are no loose-agressive players behind, I could play it from utg as a semi-bluff.
 
Phoenix Wright

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It (as usual) depends on other factors like table image, table dynamics, effective stacks and so on. UTG (even if only 6-max), I'd lean towards folding ATo. There is real danger of being dominated by AK, AQ and AT is even way behind AJ here too!

If we hold ATo (UTG also isn't so good for us out of position as well), then we are really vulnerable to any "real hand." I'd typically be folding it here. Perhaps I'd occasionally play it for balance/deception or for some longer meta-game strategy like table image, but against a decent player I respect, I'm folding preflop here.
 
Batarang96

Batarang96

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Most of the time, yes.

1. Your position is poor.
2. Your hand is weak.
3. AK(s), AQs, AJs are giving you action.
4. Your hand will almost never improve over hands that are ahead of it.
5. You'll almost never win by checking through the river.
6. You'll almost never beat any hand in your opponent's value betting range.
7. Worse hands in your opponent's range are almost always folding to your value bets.
 
W

whyfold that

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yes cause you dont feel its a good hand to push with
 
infonazar

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Of course, as always, "it depends" .....
But in most cases, I personally will be willing to fold that hand.
 
C

ChuckNola

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It (as usual) depends on other factors like table image, table dynamics, effective stacks and so on. UTG (even if only 6-max), I'd lean towards folding ATo. There is real danger of being dominated by AK, AQ and AT is even way behind AJ here too!

If we hold ATo (UTG also isn't so good for us out of position as well), then we are really vulnerable to any "real hand." I'd typically be folding it here. Perhaps I'd occasionally play it for balance/deception or for some longer meta-game strategy like table image, but against a decent player I respect, I'm folding preflop here.


Not really. I’ll play A5s, A4s, A3s, A2s as well has A10s. I pose the question strictly about A10o because that hand plays terrible during the hand and if you get 3 bet you have to fold whereas the suited connected hands can be played post flop if you get 3 bet.

I keep enough junk in my UTG opening range to justify leaving A10 out of it but in a 6 handed game I feel compelled to playing that hand
 
ChickenArise

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not at all, you should almost always open in 6 max as you need a good reason not to play this hand. You have to be more aggressive at 6max. I might consider a fold to a large 3 bet.
 
Phoenix Wright

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Not really. I’ll play A5s, A4s, A3s, A2s as well has A10s. I pose the question strictly about A10o because that hand plays terrible during the hand and if you get 3 bet you have to fold whereas the suited connected hands can be played post flop if you get 3 bet.

I keep enough junk in my UTG opening range to justify leaving A10 out of it but in a 6 handed game I feel compelled to playing that hand

Different playstyles and ranges can justify playing certain hands, but I wouldn't alter ranges that dramatically for 6-max compared to a full ring (9 players) table. Of course we should probably widen our range with less players, but 6 is still a ton of players to compete with. In 6-handed games, I get good results by treating it like a full-ring game where the first 3 seats folded. If this helps, then it is almost like 6-max has no UTG, UTG+1 or MP and is playing only SB, BB, LJ, HJ, CO, BTN.

As for playing hands like A2s because of 3-bet potential, I suspect this trouble hand could be a leak; either a losing hand long-term or at least a small winner with a lot of risk.

Just to clarify, I occasionally sprinkle in small Ax suited hands (like A5s) for 3-bet balancing, but more often than not, I'm simply folding them pre-flop. I know from the limited experience I have that these are not that profitable long-term and they can potentially lose a ton because of the bad kicker which plays.

ATo (especially when out of position in this case) is in a similar problem; typically I'll fold this hand unless I have a reason not to do so.
 
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green_ruckus

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To evaluate we need more information.
How were the bets?
Your stack?
Start, middle or end of the game?


Totally second you. Would also consider how much of a read I have on the other players and my own table image meaning that you need to know what they think your range is.
 
E

easy play

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ATo is mixed in my RFI UTG range. AJo is 100% open and KTo is a pure fold.
 
henriquemaduro

henriquemaduro

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To evaluate we need more information.
How were the bets?
Your stack?
Start, middle or end of the game?


I would just add the information on the player who bet before (if had any), a bet from a loose player let me take a diferent action from a bet of a tight player.
 
R

RDHartsoe

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I would fold it. But that is just me. What are the other stacks like? If a huge a huge stack will act after me then I would definitely fold it. If suited, it might be a different story.
 
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Hermus

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I think it used to be a default fold for almost anyone, but with most player pools under-bluffing 3-bet spots especially against early position opens I think you can expect a slight profit from opening ATo UTG.
 
srurrr

srurrr

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Is it sane to fold that hand? You can't make any money if your hand range is so narrow.
 
H

Hermus

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Is it sane to fold that hand? You can't make any money if your hand range is so narrow.


It's right on the cusp of playability UTG in a 6-max game. It's one of the first hands to make it in an open range against passive pre-flop players and one of the first to go on tables where you face a lot of 3-bets and squeezes.
 
johnnylawford

johnnylawford

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I would play ATo UTG in a six-max MTT, and Upswing Poker's 6-max ranges confirm this is the recommended play:

https://upswingpoker.com/6-handed-max-poker-strategy/

I would only fold it if I was expecting to get shoved on (e.g. I was short stack at the table in a bounty game) or it was close to the bubble in a satellite and I was in a good position to cash. Always playing it in a 6-max cash game.
 
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