Returning Player - Advice

[katiekat29]

Hi,

I'm a returning player. I played full time 10 years ago, and did this for about 5 years.

I'm looking for some help.

It seems to be a good time for me to come back to play. I happen to have enough for a decent bankroll and my mental health is in a much better place than it ever was

For context, not bragging: I used to beat the rake; I was a winning player but the majority of my winnings came from Rakeback. I didn't keep detailed records but I'd imagine this would class me as a marginally winning player.

I'm an online Hold 'Em cash game player and that's all I'm interested in for the moment.


1) Where can I learn about GTO deeply?
2) What Sites can I play on, what's best right now?
3) What Kind of bb/100 can I expect?
4) Is there rakeback still available?
5) Where do I start with using Programs such as PokerTracker - I never used these in the past but I imagine they're now even more compulsory.
6) Should I learn GTO just for 6 Max? What about shorter handed?

 

[UkoChebuko]

And why you just don't use Google!? For "start"...
You can use some "solvers" for the GTO. The field tendencies are very different. Aggresion, lower fold percentage preflop and postflop. There are sites with rakeback, also a leaderboards. In Stars no rakeback, but the field is weaker. But maybe the same (as strenght), like 10 years ago.
HM3 if you start now with the software. Learn Note Caddy. Fast...And the charts. Heat maps...There are a lot of things.

 

[katiekat29]

And why you just don't use Google!? For "start"...
You can use some "solvers" for the GTO. The field tendencies are very different. Aggresion, lower fold percentage preflop and postflop. There are sites with rakeback, also a leaderboards. In Stars no rakeback, but the field is weaker. But maybe the same (as strenght), like 10 years ago.
HM3 if you start now with the software. Learn Note Caddy. Fast...And the charts. Heat maps...There are a lot of things.

Thanks, I'll check those out.

 

[Collin Moshman]

Here are my answers:

1. To learn deeply how to apply a GTO poker strategy, you would want to use a GTO program like Piosolver or GTO Range Builder. These definitely have a steep learning curve and can be expensive, but they're powerful programs for sure.

2. CardsChat maintains a nice list of reviews here.

3. Winrates are lower than they were 5-10 years ago but the games are still beatable. The specific attainable bb/100 will depend a lot on what buy-in you're playing.

4. Yes. It's very low on Stars now, but otherwise widely available.

5. Start with a free trial of one like PT4 (my favorite). Watch tutorials and then either Google or post here if you get stuck somewhere. Start off with a simple HUD!

6. Most GTO work is post-flop. The wider pre-flop ranges of short-handed will impact post-flop play, but I wouldn't look at it as a division between 6-max and shorter-handed GTO study. If you go deep into the solvers, you'll mainly want to input hands you've played/marked in tracking software and want to study regardless of number of players at the table.

Good luck returning to the game!

 

[katiekat29]

Thanks for replying, I've read your books in the past, very helpful

 

[sn0112]

Thanks for starting this thread. It's very helpful to see CM's responses

If I can add a few extra comments:

1) Where can I learn about GTO deeply?

There is also a book by Michael Acevedo called Modern Poker Theory. This is considered the gold standard on GTO but is very deep and mathematical. Applications of No Limit Holdem by Matthew Janda is also a great introduction into GTO. For a more accessible intro, the Play Optimal Poker series by Andrew Brokos attempts to teach GTO in a more practical way.

I don't want to open a can of worms but I would also recommend reading about GTO vs exploitative and how to strike a balance. I'm guessing you're coming from an exploitative background - try not to lose sight of the fact that GTO solvers assume that your opponent is playing optimal GTO too.

There is also a strong opinion that GTO is less important at micro stakes and/or if you seldom encounter the same opponents.

It's definitely a debate that warrants some wider reading

2) What Sites can I play on, what's best right now?
Once you've read the reviews provided above, I'd recommend narrowing it down based on availability in your country and your preferred game type (cash, MTTs) etc. There are several threads on here with site comparison questions.

5) Where do I start with using Programs such as PokerTracker - I never used these in the past but I imagine they're now even more compulsory.

Several of the leading sites, including Party Poker and GG, now ban HUDs. This means that you cannot use them in-game.

You will still need them for statistics, analysis of hands, calculating win rates etc.

PT4 or HM3 are recommended by pros. If you are on a budget Hand2Note has a great free version and DriveHUD has a $9 annual membership.

Good luck on your return

 

[katiekat29]

Thanks for starting this thread. It's very helpful to see CM's responses

If I can add a few extra comments:

1) Where can I learn about GTO deeply?

There is also a book by Michael Acevedo called Modern Poker Theory. This is considered the gold standard on GTO but is very deep and mathematical. Applications of No Limit Holdem by Matthew Janda is also a great introduction into GTO. For a more accessible intro, the Play Optimal Poker series by Andrew Brokos attempts to teach GTO in a more practical way.

I don't want to open a can of worms but I would also recommend reading about GTO vs exploitative and how to strike a balance. I'm guessing you're coming from an exploitative background - try not to lose sight of the fact that GTO solvers assume that your opponent is playing optimal GTO too.

There is also a strong opinion that GTO is less important at micro stakes and/or if you seldom encounter the same opponents.

It's definitely a debate that warrants some wider reading

2) What Sites can I play on, what's best right now?
Once you've read the reviews provided above, I'd recommend narrowing it down based on availability in your country and your preferred game type (cash, MTTs) etc. There are several threads on here with site comparison questions.

5) Where do I start with using Programs such as PokerTracker - I never used these in the past but I imagine they're now even more compulsory.

Several of the leading sites, including Party Poker and GG, now ban HUDs. This means that you cannot use them in-game.

You will still need them for statistics, analysis of hands, calculating win rates etc.

PT4 or HM3 are recommended by pros. If you are on a budget Hand2Note has a great free version and DriveHUD has a $9 annual membership.

Good luck on your return

Ty v much, v helpful.

 

[Collin Moshman]

Thanks for starting this thread. It's very helpful to see CM's responses

If I can add a few extra comments:

1) Where can I learn about GTO deeply?

There is also a book by Michael Acevedo called Modern Poker Theory. This is considered the gold standard on GTO but is very deep and mathematical. Applications of No Limit Holdem by Matthew Janda is also a great introduction into GTO. For a more accessible intro, the Play Optimal Poker series by Andrew Brokos attempts to teach GTO in a more practical way.

I don't want to open a can of worms but I would also recommend reading about GTO vs exploitative and how to strike a balance. I'm guessing you're coming from an exploitative background - try not to lose sight of the fact that GTO solvers assume that your opponent is playing optimal GTO too.

There is also a strong opinion that GTO is less important at micro stakes and/or if you seldom encounter the same opponents.

It's definitely a debate that warrants some wider reading

2) What Sites can I play on, what's best right now?
Once you've read the reviews provided above, I'd recommend narrowing it down based on availability in your country and your preferred game type (cash, MTTs) etc. There are several threads on here with site comparison questions.

5) Where do I start with using Programs such as PokerTracker - I never used these in the past but I imagine they're now even more compulsory.

Several of the leading sites, including Party Poker and GG, now ban HUDs. This means that you cannot use them in-game.

You will still need them for statistics, analysis of hands, calculating win rates etc.

PT4 or HM3 are recommended by pros. If you are on a budget Hand2Note has a great free version and DriveHUD has a $9 annual membership.

Good luck on your return

Great answers and tips Sn0!

 

[sn0112]

You also might find this helpful:
https://www.primedope.com/online-poker-rake-comparison-rake-calculator/

It also has reviews of poker sites and several useful tools (variance/ICM calculators etc.)

 

[okeedokalee]

You also might find this helpful:
https://www.primedope.com/online-poker-rake-comparison-rake-calculator/

It also has reviews of poker sites and several useful tools (variance/ICM calculators etc.)

Thanks, this site is very useful.