PS Watching now: 2007 Heads up championship

Pokerstudy

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Titling PS Watching now so I can quick find later here :)
 
Bricxjo

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If you click on the watch later icon, you can see it in your watch later folder if you are signed in to You Tube.

I watched this video, I didn't know it was only 10 minutes when I started. There was a nice lay down at the end and I was just starting to get interested. Would have liked to see the whole show. Let me know if you find it. I am a bit too busy editing posts in the forum at the moment, but I would be interested.
 
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Pokerstudy

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If you click on the watch later icon, you can see it in your watch later folder if you are signed in to You Tube.

Yes, it was to talk about heads up play theory in a discussion and video was basis. Haven’t thought about topics/discussion yet for heads up play

I can re-title the thread or maybe move it to community hangout etc
 
Bricxjo

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Yes, it was to talk about heads up play theory in a discussion and video was basis. Haven’t thought about topics/discussion yet for heads up play

I can re-title the thread or maybe move it to community hangout etc
Looks like you responded while I was watching it and then I edited my post after. I think it may be fine here if there is something to discuss. So far I just see a few hands to highlight, could you find more and make some comments to generate interest?
 
Pokerstudy

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Looks like you responded while I was watching it and then I edited my post after. I think it may be fine here if there is something to discuss. So far I just see a few hands to highlight, could you find more and make some comments to generate interest?
Sounds good I was trying to find the links but got distracted at work, it’s so easy to get distracted these days but it’s such great stuff! Old but amazing material from the golden days of poker! I will find the links and perhaps find a better title for thread, but this show could really up my live heads up game for sure and want to share what I see and discuss on forum

Sloppy start of a post, but I’ll make it right lol
 
Bricxjo

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Sounds good I was trying to find the links but got distracted at work, it’s so easy to get distracted these days but it’s such great stuff! Old but amazing material from the golden days of poker! I will find the links and perhaps find a better title for thread, but this show could really up my live heads up game for sure and want to share what I see and discuss on forum

Sloppy start of a post, but I’ll make it right lol
No worries. I watched a different year of the same tournament where Annette Oberstad and Phil Helmuth were my favorite table. Pretty nice to watch check it out. It's really fun to watch.


This conversation has ripped me away from editing in a good way to do some actual posting myself. I think that the aa hand in the first clip and the aa hand in the Hellmuth vs. Obrestad hand really show the impact of knowing your opponent.
 
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Pokerstudy

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I finally finished the Dan Harrington on Holdem Vol 2, AMAZING AMAZING book, primarily focusing on inflection points in tournaments . The ending section talks all about Heads up, and it breaks down all the elements. It inspired me to look up a youtube video over a heads up hand breakdown between Phil Ivey and John D' Agostino but I was not able to find it when I searched yesterday (apparently it was the first unedited poker heads up broadcast which shows the full nuts and bolts of poker hands not edited just for TV excitement). Instead I found this show to compare notes from his chapter in the book. Going to take more review when I have time, but wow, amazing material and what an amazing show to review and compare to the study material from the book in action.
 
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Pokerstudy

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No worries. I watched a different year of the same tournament where Annette Oberstad and Phil Helmuth were my favorite table. Pretty nice to watch check it out. It's really fun to watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_WDkZOHuKc

This conversation has ripped me away from editing in a good way to do some actual posting myself. I think that the aa hand in the first clip and the aa hand in the Hellmuth vs. Obrestad hand really show the impact of knowing your opponent.
That match was great to watch! It’s amazing how calm and collected she was compared to Phil lol. Laughed when Gus Hansen had to see what was going on twice lol.

I am a huge believer in maintaining posture and cool no matter what hand I have.
 
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Bricxjo

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Oh man, thanks for posting so many videos, I am going to watch them now (probably spaced out through the day). You mentioned Dan Harrington, I love his books. My favorite is Harrington on Online Cash Games: 6-Max No-Limit Hold 'em and if you have read the others, I think you will really get a lot out of it.

With covid, I don't see myself playing live poker for a few years. Time to study up, stay in, stay safe and buckle down on online skills for me. I would like to improve my head's up game. Think I will break out some Harrington to read myself, I have some time on my hands, lol. I might just start at the beginning of the library again to see what I missed the last time I read it.

Cheers buddy :icon_sunn
 
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Ok, what I am looking at is comparing the notes from Harrington on Holdem Vol 2 - The chapter on Heads up. This is not the whole chapter, this is just notes I wrote from the book for my own notes/spreadsheet. THIS may be off as I just wrote them after highlights (I can type very fast, so I type a lot). So not 100% all is accurate, but should be close enough for copying from book lol. I am not posting these to teach, but to just review and discuss ideas as I am learning myself. If you have the book, and the notes look off, let me know and will correct.

Heads up
The cards rule in these short little sessions.

Add these rankings to Excell sheet p.365

The top 10% (62% or better to win)
Pairs: AA-66
Suited non-pairs: AK-A8, KQ, KJ
Unsuited non-pairs: AK-AT

The top 20% (58% or better to win)
All the above plus
Pairs: 55
Suited non-Pairs: A7-A3, KT-K8, QJ,QT
Unsuited Non-Pairs: A9-A7,KQ, KT, QJ

The top 30% (55% or better to win)
All the above pairs plus
Pairs: 44
Suited Non-Pairs: A2, K7-K5, Q9, Q8, JT, J9
Unsuited Non-Pairs: A6-A3, K9-K7, QT

The top 40% (52% or better to win)
All the above pairs
Pairs: 33
Suited Non-Pairs: K4-K2, Q7-Q5, J8, T9
Unsuited Non-Pairs: A2, K6-K4, Q9, Q8, JT, J9

The top 50% (50% or better to win)
All the above pairs
Pairs: 22
Suited Non-Pairs: Q4-Q2, J7-J5, T8, T7, 98
Unsuited Non-Pairs: K3, K2, Q7-Q5,J8, T9

The top 60% (47% or better to win)
All the above pairs
Suited Non-Pairs: J4-J2, T6, T5, 97, 96, 87
Unsuited Non-Pairs: Q4-Q2, J7-J5, T8, T7, 98

The top 70% (44% or better to win)
All the above pairs
Suited Non-Pairs T4-T2, 95, 94, 86, 85, 76, 75
Unsuited Non-Pairs: J4-J2, T6, T5, 97, 96, 87

The top 80% (41% or better to win)
All the above pairs: 93, 92, 84, 83, 74, 65 64, 54
Unsuited Non-Pairs: T4- T2, 95, 94, 86, 85, 76

The top 90% (38% or better to win)
All the above pairs
Suited Non-Pairs: 82, 73, 72, 63, 62, 53, 52, 43
Unsuited Non-Pairs: 94-92, 84, 83, 75, 74, 65, 64, 54

The bottom 10% (32% to 37% to win)
Suited Non-Pairs: 42, 32
Unsuited Non-Pairs: 73, 63, 53, 43, 82, 72, 62, 52, 42, 32

The single key idea to take away from the table is that suited matter a little and high cards matter a lot.

(heads up- Simply pairing one of the low cards might be enough.

Pre-Flop Heads up play

1. Any pair is a big hand.
2. Almost all hands are battles of unpaired cards
3. Domination isn't as bad as you think
4. You will mostly have the pot odds you need to play.
When you have a pair, you should assume your facing a non-pair accordingly. You almost certainly wont be able to read your opponent well enough to distinguish between his holding a pair and his holding to high cards, and he will be holding a pair so rarely that you will be costing yourself money if you try.

Almost all Hands are battles of Unpaired Cards
Seven hands out of eight the two players are holding unpaired cards. If there is not a card in common (a sitution we call domination) /then no two unpaired cards are a huge favorite over any other two unpaired cards.
See stats p.371

Position and Bet sizes in Heads-Up Play
Position is even more important heads-up than at a full table, since its just a dual-state function.
Position is especially important when the two competing hands are close in value.

In heads-up play, you don’t need to raise quite as much. Part of the reason for the bet size at a full table was to chase away some marginal hands and prevent them from drawing to beat you. With only one opponent, there are no other players to chase away. Now I like a bet range of two to three times the big blind.
I use a bet of three times the big blind to discourage action and get my opponent to drop.
Good heads-up strategy requires playing as many hands as possible when in position and pushing marginal hands as hard as possible when out of position.
High-M Confrontations Versus Low-M Confrontations
The notion of “effective M” takes on a slightly different meaning in heads-up play.
There is less reason to modify the actual M to reflect strategy changes based on the shrunken table.

You are the Small Blind/Button
As the Small Blind/Button, you act first pre-flop and last after the flop. The pot will be offering you better than 3 to 1 odds to get involved, and you will have a positional advantage throughout the hand. With these edges working for you, play agressively! Here are your rules:
1. At least call with any to cards. (if your opponet has been raising regularly from the big blind in response to your calls, then throw aay your trash hands – those in the bottom 20 percent of possible hands)
2. You have a potential raising hand if you hold any hand in the top 40 percent of all hands and the Ms are lower (under 10 for either player) If the Ms of the two players are high (10 or more each), then your standards need to be stricter. /in that case, any hand in the top 30 percent of all hands is a potential raising hand. When you have a potential raising hand, raise two-thirds of the time and call one-third of the time. I/f you have one of the top three pairs (aces, kings, or queens) reverse this mix, calling two-thirds and raising one-third.
3. If you call and are raised, call with any ace, any pair, or any other hand in the top 30 percent of all hands.
4. If you call and are raised all-in, call with any hand in the top 20 perent of all hands.
5. If you raise and are reraised (all-in or not), call with for certain with any pair or any other hand in the top 10 percent of all hands. (/note that 80 percent of all reraises are made with two high cards, hence the rule for calling with pairs.) You may want to call with hands in the top 20 percent of all hands, depending on other circumstances. I would call with these hands, for instance, if I had money odds of 4 to 1 or 3 to 1. With 2 to 1 odds, I would call if I had any sort of read on my opponet that pointed to a call. If the Ms are very large, I would tighten my restriction somewhat. Now I would call only with pairs down to sixes, or ace-king, ace queen, or ace-jack.
The logic of these rules is pretty simple. A raise after your call doesn’t necessairly indicate great strength, so you just need a good hand to continue. A raise after you have already raised indicates a very good hand, and restricting your calls to top 10 percent of hands gives you a fighting chance of having the best hand in the showdown. Oif course, pot odds play a role here as well, and if the pot odds are compelling, you may choose to get inovolved with weaker hands.
One last important rule: If the Ms are low (say 3 to 5) and your opponet seems to be establishing a pattern of going all-in every hand, just pick a hand in the top 30 percent and call.

You are the Big Blind

As the big blind, you will have a positional disadvantage for the rest of the hand, so ending the hand quickly is a high priority.
1. If your opponet just calls and thje Ms are less than 5, raise all-in with any hand in the top 30 percent of all hands. If the Ms are between 5 and 10, raise, but not necessairly all-in. With big Ms (above 10) increase your requirments to hands in the top 20 percent.
2. If your opponet raises, call with anytop -30 percent hand and reraise with any top-20 percent hand. Here, however you need to be paying attention to what your opponet has been doing. If he hasn’t been raising much, then sticks in a strong raise, tighten your calling requirements to a top-20 percent hand and your corresponding reraising requirements to a top 10 percenthand.
3. If your opponet raises all-in, call with any top-20 percent hand.
Your raising strategy from the big blind is aggressive, reflecting your desire to eliminate as much post-flop play as possible.

Both players are trying to get inside their opponets heads and reason out each others stratregy. As soon as possible, you want answers to these questions like the following.

1. Is he desperate or confident? Tired or Energized?
2. Is he happy playing a long session, or does he want the session finished quickly?
3. Is he limping with bad hands, or a mixtureof bad and good hands?
4. What hands will he slow-play?
5. What hand does he need to call an all-in move?
6. Is he playing the way he did when the table was three and four handed, or has he switched to some new strategy just for heads-up play?





Heads up play notes VARIOUS
Good players are in general much happier playing hands like jack-nine and ten 8 heads up than they are with the widely separated cards like king-small, queen-small, and jack-small.

Ace-eight is what pros consider the crossover hand with aces. If you think your opponent may have an ace of his own, then ace-eight is better than half the aces he might hold.

Dagostino checks after the flop, which is a very conservative move. Most players would have led out here to clarify the situation. Ivey very reasonably fills the void with a bet.

A mistake. As I mentioned before, Dagostinoi just about always getting the pot odds he needs to call from the small blind/button, and he will have position after the flop as well. Jack-four is just a slightly below average hand (and in fact, here it’s the best hand) calling is clear.

He now has top pair, which in heads-up play is the equivalent of flopping a set at a full table.
Suited cards win about 2 percent more often than the same cards unsuited.

The counter-move is to lead out with a bet into that flop, which then leads to a head game between the two players, as each tries to play chicken with the other. Weak players tend to lose heads-up confrontations by not betting frequently enough. You have to be willing to both lead and re-raise with nothing on a regular enough schedule to keep your opponent guessing.

D’Agostino took a few seconds before folding, which is good technique. He's showing Ivey that he wasn’t bluffing with Zip (We know he was of course) You don’t need to play hamlet here, just think a bit and then much your hand.

Ivey continues to mix up his play. He’s raised with strong hands before, now he raises with a weak hand. He will, however, have position later in the hand.

This hand illustrates with brutal clarity just how important position really is.

Flopped Middle pair, is very strong hand heads-up.

Its hard to represent an ace when two have already appeared on the board.

You should never get too discouraged playing heads-up, because any random bit of luck can let you double up no matter how badly the previous hands have gone. Patience is a huge asset in poker.

We should note here that some players adopt a perma-raise strategy in heads up, basically all-in on every hand. (For very weak players its not a bad strategy)

Our evidence is growing, however, that our opponent is in permanent raise mode.

Even if he has you dominated with Ace-queen or King-queen, the price is still right.

Most poker players who arent adept in math seem to think that domination is a disaster which makes you a 3 to 1 underdog, but the truth isn;t nearly that bad.

Your opponent checks to you, indicating weakness.

This is an extremely attractive bet from a risk-reward ratio. If your opponent folds this bet half the time, you will make a steady profit. Even if he only folds one-third of the time, you will break even.

A significant portion of the time, even a single high card is good enough to take the pot in heads-up play.

These plays take courage in the absence of a genuinely strong hand, but you can’t allow your opponent to nibble away at you for free. Just remember that the continuation type bet offers such favorable odds that many times players will be making it with no hand at all.

Note: Folding pre-flop on the button is actually all right if your opponent has shown he will raise you most of the time when you just call.

But your opponent calls again, which is certainly suspicious. You should be thinking at this point that he must have something.

 
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Pokerstudy

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This is going to sound like BS, but I am honest. I once was a friend to a famous actress... And well, we played softball together with a bunch of musicians. A long time ago now... After the third time playing, she kicked everyone's ass lol..and it was figured out it came down to Mimicing and Studying...and that is clearly what is going on here!

I see it for the second damn time now that I watch this lol
 
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