Postflop with a great hand or the nuts ..SHOVE or BET 1/2 - 2/3 pot?

[bdc100]

Sorry if this is a naive question.

Postflop with a great made-hand (overpair, two-pair or better), I tend to bet 1/2 - 2/3 pot whether I have the nuts, OR my hand is beatable but the table has been passive.

But I've noticed many successful (big-stack) players shove in this situation (even with an overpair or other beatable hand) because they always seem to get callers.

So is shoving better than betting <= pot in this particular situation?

 

[lukeellul92]

There are just too many dynamics in this position.

If the big stack is shoving, he's shoving cos he's the big stack, he probably has a very good hand anyways, but the fact is he's asking you all to put your entire stack in.

But you need to take into account effective stack sizes (The smallest stack in the hand is the effective stack), board texture (are their better/bigger draws out there that you haven't got? Is it a dry board?)

You shouldn't play it the same way every single time, otherwise people will know your game too well. If you're short stacked and you got the nuts or a great hand, then sure, shove, but if you have the stack to just C-bet etc, then do that.

Rule of thumb for beginners: If you want callers, bet small (1/4-1/3 pot, this gives them good odds to call usually), if you want to induce folds then bet %70-%80 pot, even a pot sized bet. By doing this, if you get calls with a big bet, you can feel where you're at, and then from that kinda determine what they're calling with etc, aka putting them on a range of hands.

 

[starting_at_the_bottom]

I wouldnt really define an overpair as a great hand, its a decent hand that you should generally bet strongly with, but you should always be prepared to fold it if required.

Plus we need some context, tourney or cash? fish or nits at the table?

 

[ribaric]

Sorry if this is a naive question.

Postflop with a great made-hand (overpair, two-pair or better), I tend to bet 1/2 - 2/3 pot whether I have the nuts, OR my hand is beatable but the table has been passive.

But I've noticed many successful (big-stack) players shove in this situation (even with an overpair or other beatable hand) because they always seem to get callers.

So is shoving better than betting <= pot in this particular situation?

In MTT-s i dont like to shove cuz there is always a possibillity that you can loose so its better to bet but not to loose all your chips. Just bet carefully.

 

[BullWink]

If you don't bet large, then you get lots of callers on a draw. If you go third pot size bet, and get a caller, then other players suddenly also find that they have the odds to call, and suddenly you have lots of players, one of whom may catch his draw.

If you bet pot size bet or larger, then you may still get a call from someone on a draw, but over time this will not be a money making call.

 

[bdc100]

Rule of thumb for beginners: If you want callers, bet small (1/4-1/3 pot, this gives them good odds to call usually), if you want to induce folds then bet %70-%80 pot, even a pot sized bet. By doing this, if you get calls with a big bet, you can feel where you're at, and then from that kinda determine what they're calling with etc, aka putting them on a range of hands.

Thanks, I like the point in your last sentence: if you get calls with a big bet, you can feel where you're at. I've noticed a call of a big bet on the turn is a big 'red flag' (unless the bettor has the nuts).

 

[baklagan]

I think that this depends on the situation, here is some of them :
1) If you have a nuts flopbut there is a good chances for better combinations then yours,then you need to bet a good raise (all-in if your raise will leave you without effective stack to proceed the game) in order not to give others a good pot chanches to buying a needed card
2) If you have a very aggressive players after you that always raise on flop,then you may check-call or check-small reraise if there is not situation 1.
3) If there is no aggressive players after you and it is not situation 1 then you need to get maximum value from the pot,try to put a small bets 1/2, 1/3 of pot,no need to put a smaller bets or you will give everyone too good chanches to call and you may lose (because nuts on flop probably will not be nuts on river)

 

[bprpm]

I have my betsizer with pré flop bets, and post flop!
I always c bet, 39%, with nothing and with some great hands.. Then in the turn normally i bet half oh the pot or more than half... Remember if u want the call normally we bet small to induce the call, the river a litle more than pote size....
If is a bluff or you have the nuts bet with a lot of strenght!
Sometimes top pair, top kicker it's not the bes hand Remember that!

 

[lauraPOKER]

In MTT-s i dont like to shove cuz there is always a possibillity that you can loose so its better to bet but not to loose all your chips. Just bet carefully.

I agree...most of my shovings had a terrible end! It is risky to shove specially when everybody goes bingo-like-all in game!