This is a discussion on Overpairs on paired board within the online poker forums, in the Learning Poker section; Let's say you are in a tourney, you have JJ-KK OTB, you have 3-bet the pot pre, you get 2 callers and a flop of
Let's say you are in a tourney, you have JJ-KK OTB, you have 3-bet the pot pre, you get 2 callers and a flop of 366 comes on the board.
They both check to you. You have just over the pot left in your stack. Do you bet hard and go all-in to protect your hand against an Ace or a backdoor set/draw, and to get value from 77-TT?
Or do you think not much calls your big bet but a monster like a bigger overpair, quads, a full house and protect your tourney life and hope they catch something smaller by the river?
Or do you play these situations completely differently? I guess what I am really asking is can you ever get away from these situations or set damage limitations if you are already beat here? Is it worth 3-betting less pre in a tourney etc.?
Well in my opinion in the situation u mention in the beginning, i will all on a flop like that(considering i have JJS- QQs). Having 3-bet and you got 2 callers place them on premium hands or pockets ranging from 88s+... By alling in it would give them odds of 1-2 considering you've said that you have just about pot size remaining as your stack. So 1-2 odds wont be the best odds for them to call and if one folds and the other calls hopefully he has a overpair less than yours or a hand like AK, AQ and pray neither comes on the board. But if have KKs, or AAs i might slwo it down a bit and be weary of set minners, idk i might even shove to, cause if my stack size is just about the size of the pot i think i would get it all in on the flop, give them odds that arent so favourable. GL sir
Great question on a tricky spot. In a tournament situation we also have to consider stack sizes as well: A short 10BB or less fold/shove stack is insta calling with a wide range if it puts them all in. And on the other end of the spectrum, a massive stack might see your 3-bet as so small compared to their stack that they call a wider range.
In this particular hand I think we can generally rule out JJ-AA and AK as most players here will probably 4-bet you. And if stacks are shorter they might just 4-bet shove with 88+ and even higher suited connectors (like 910s).
So this flop comes 366 (and I'm assuming it's rainbow with no 2 cards of same suit?) we can probably rule out the above ranges in most cases. That leaves us with the villain having 66, 33, or 63. 63 is highly unlikely but set mining massive stacks or shoving tiny stacks may be more likely to hold 66 33 here just to see the flop and hit it hard. There's also a chance they show up with something like A6 suited or if super short stacked they may have just shoved any face card with a 6. Slight chance they only called your 3-bet with like QQ which might beat you if you happened to have JJ.
If one of these two callers is super short and likely to shove anyways, I'd just go all in. If one of these two callers is massive and has you well covered, I'd consider their range carefully and then likely shove (if your stack is only about the size of the current pot, a shove here gives 2:1 for any draws which on this board are pretty limited to 2-3 outers and even if both villains call they're still no where close to "great odds" to chase looking for a higher pair, higher set, or 2p). If the villian(s) are close to your stack size I'd probably insta shove and make them decide for all their chips.
Yeah you'll occasionally run into an overpair that for some reason only flat called your 3-bet and you lose. And you'll occasionally run into 66, x6, and 33 and lose. And sometimes you'll get called by something like A3 that spikes an A or 3 on river or a pocket pair that spikes a set on river. But we can't be scared of these rarities.
So with all this information: it's generally an all in shove for me in a tournament.
Patience and discipline are two skills you must master to succeed at poker long term.
Over pairs bust a lot of people because they are very often overplayed.
Regardless of which way you decide to play your hand, you only have a pair. You really need to AVOID all ins with just a pair, even if it is an over pair. In a cash game your decision would be simpler because you can simply rebuy.
I would continue the hand but you need to really control the pot (all-in is not controlling the pot).
depends on there range if it micro game then very well you could have a guy with a6 67 because they are playing 50% of there cards. but in most spot lets say jj then you really dont want to give a free card say it come q on turn then you have to be worried more about hands like kq qj aq getting there, i would just shove and hope that they might overvalue ak or small pairs and call off, if it is someone who always takes a stab then i would check shove over his flop bet. passive players on the other hand i would just shove on flop.