I decided to get serious about improving my poker game back in August and started playing NL2 full ring tables in 888 Poker. I was using Nathan "Blackrain79" Williams' education to "Crush the Microstakes", which is perfect if you want to stay at that limit. He understands the way that pool behaves, but it doesn't translate well at higher stakes above NL5.

However, I planned to up my game to higher stakes instead of grinding for pennies (I am gainfully employed, so winning a couple of bucks in a night wasn't really a great use of my time). To get better at "proper" poker, I signed up for some other online courses such as From The Ground Up by Peter Clarke on Run It Once and Evan Jarvis' (aka Gripsed) free content on YouTube and Udemy. It is great material! I started applying this in some tournament play where I managed to cash in 2 final tables and 2 more final 15 spots in the past 2 weeks. That education just doesn't work in NL2, since the players don't react to the "proper" poker strategy. It's, dare say, TOO fishy and looser than a !

I decided to play NL5 for a bit and saw much better results, so I am sticking with this because I can see that my learning is more effective here than it was at NL2 (or maybe I am just improving and was already able to move up from there, hard to say). There are more regs, yes, but there are still fish and you can still make more money from those fish than you can in NL2. They seem to back down from big bets after calling you all the way to the river, since more all-in money is on the line than NL2.

I would dare say that learning to play at NL2 (other than for developing good ranges via playing hands) could possibly be detrimental, since you are playing a different metagame from almost all other stakes thanks to the erratic behaviour from the bottom of the barrel fish. In my opinion, I look at NL5 as the starting point for anyone looking to build experience and improve out of microstakes. If you think you are doing well, take a stab at NL8 (PokerStars has a small NL8 field) or NL10. I have yet to try it, since I know it's a big jump in skill level with less fishy goodness.

Personally, I like playing 6-Max over full ring, as it feels easier for my style of play and I have a better win rate with aggressive play on 6-Max, but full ring prepares you more for MTTs like freerolls and micro tournaments.



I'm curious to hear what are your thoughts and experiences. What about you coaches and more experienced players who have been at this for years now: any thoughts on what should be the ideal stakes to apply and practice any poker training and coaching?

If the 5 in NL5 means 5 dollars and not 5 cents, and you are profitable at that limit, then why are you saying you want to practice 9 ring tables to prepare yourself for "MTTs like freerolls and micro tournaments"?
In my opinion, playing freerolls is nonsensical for someone who is profitable at NL5 tables.

Originally Posted by zinzir

If the 5 in NL5 means 5 dollars and not 5 cents

Just to clarify, I mean NL5 as in 2/5 cents.

Originally Posted by Karpundir

Just to clarify, I mean NL5 as in 2/5 cents.

Okay, that makes sense, normally that's written 2c/5cNL that's why I got confused there.

Originally Posted by Karpundir

It is great material! I started applying this in some tournament play where I managed to cash in 2 final tables and 2 more final 15 spots in the past 2 weeks.

Can you provide links to those materials that you think have improved your level of playing MTT?

And good luck in further training and improvement!

P.S. About stakes: 5$ - it's NL500, 5$/10$ - NL1000.

I kind of agree with not spending to much time at 2NL. I will also say, that there is not a huge difference between 5NL and 10NL, so its more a question of bankroll.

I currently play mostly on 888 Poker, but I have not played much 5NL on the site, because when I moved there from PokerStars, I was already taking shots at 25NL. I will say however, that the rake for 2NL and 5NL is rather brutal on 888 Poker.

Where Stars actually less the rake at these stakes, 888 goes the other way and increase it. Also after the new 4 table cap on Stars especially the 10NL games there actually seem to be softer than on 888 Poker in general. I just finished a short session, and the vast majority of the old regulars are gone leaving it to be honestly a bit of a fish pond.

So for Micro Stakes cash games I think, Stars is the better site now, while 888 is more for tournaments. At least I enjoy the tournaments at 888 including the lower rake compared to Stars.

Originally Posted by BelFish

Can you provide links to those materials that you think have improved your level of playing MTT?

And good luck in further training and improvement!

Thanks for the reply and support, BelFish!

I was able to get Evan Jarvis' MTT Video Guide free ($49 value) because I signed up for From The Ground Up (FTGU) via his referral link on this video of that program:

You Tube

Given the low $50USD cost of FTGU, which is excellent content for the money, and you get the MTT video guide for free, it's basically a 2-for-1 of incredible value.

The MTT video series covers early, mid, late stage play, bubble play, final table play and what your strategies are when you are short to big stacked. There is more to it, which is all good info.

See you in tomorrow's CC freeroll on 888!

Originally Posted by fundiver199

I kind of agree with not spending to much time at 2NL. I will also say, that there is not a huge difference between 5NL and 10NL, so its more a question of bankroll.

I currently play mostly on 888 Poker, but I have not played much 5NL on the site, because when I moved there from PokerStars, I was already taking shots at 25NL. I will say however, that the rake for 2NL and 5NL is rather brutal on 888 Poker.

So for Micro Stakes cash games I think, Stars is the better site now, while 888 is more for tournaments. At least I enjoy the tournaments at 888 including the lower rake compared to Stars.

I did notice that 5NL was pretty easy on PS and there were way more fish. I guess the population for fish-hunting shifted to 888 with all of the sites recommending 888 as being softest. Good to know that 25NL on 888 isn't too hard, so I will have to give it a shot.

I do like the wide variety of tournament options better in PS over 888, but 888 has smaller fields, which can make it potentially easier to cash.

Ahh, yeah, that microstakes rake on 888 is brutal. I think the 5NL rake is still better than 2NL, which I don't play anymore since you can be a positive winrate, but end up breakeven or losing after rake when you don't get big payoffs on showdowns.