Lost with KK, I think I played really badly, but is this the right play?

[cifacia]

Hi!

I am getting back into poker after a small stint during my first year of college where I used to play a bit with friends.

Context is a deepstack 1euro, I have KK but ended up losing this is the hand:


PokerStars - 125/250 Ante 30 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players


CO: 199.6 BB
Hero (BTN): 204.38 BB
SB: 202.1 BB
BB: 192.16 BB
UTG: 200.38 BB
MP: 201.38 BB

6 players post ante of 0.12 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.22 BB) Hero has K♦ K♠

UTG calls 1 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, BB calls 2 BB, UTG calls 2 BB

Flop: (10.22 BB, 3 players) 2♠ A♥ 8♣
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets 4 BB, BB calls 4 BB, fold

Turn: (18.22 BB, 2 players) 6♣
BB checks, Hero bets 4 BB, BB calls 4 BB

River: (26.22 BB, 2 players) 9♣
BB checks, Hero bets 13.11 BB, BB raises to 26.22 BB, Hero calls 13.11 BB

BB shows 9♥ 9♠ (Three of a Kind, Nines)
(Pre 19%, Flop 8%, Turn 5%)
Hero mucks K♦ K♠ (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 81%, Flop 92%, Turn 95%)
BB wins 78.67 BB



So I have the strong feeling I played badly, but is it the following a better pattern?

Pre: I guess 3BB was alright here?

Flop: The bet was weak, I was mostly fishing for re-raising to check if there was an A there that was checking back to me. Maybe should've aggressed more?

Turn: Here I feel like I did the crucial mistake. Given that no one re raised on flop and here I got checked back, I should've done a much more sizeable bet? I guess 99 would have been scared off?

River: Not sure why I was not feeling he was chasing the flush, so in my head this was to get value. On the re-raise I had to call as I had too much invested in the pot and liked my odds vs the pot.


Is my read over what went on correct? Did I make other mistakes? I am really keen in improving my game and I am trying to analyse when I have a strong feeling of a hand I should've won

 

[Yanko57]

What I like to know here is: What do you know about your opponent? Is he tight or loose? What are the standard raises at your table? Is 3BB the usual raise?


If I don't have those infos here:

Your 3 BB raise preflop on the button don't represent such a great hand so BB can call me with a pretty large range.

The Ace on the flop scares me a bit. All the vilain calls after represent a small A at least.

Unfortunately for you, he caught his 9 on the river, which was really lucky. The min raise on that river should have warned you. Easy to say when you're not in the hand, but that's my point of view.

 

[cifacia]

What I like to know here is: What do you know about your opponent? Is he tight or loose? What are the standard raises at your table? Is 3BB the usual raise?


If I don't have those infos here:

Your 3 BB raise preflop on the button don't represent such a great hand so BB can call me with a pretty large range.

The Ace on the flop scares me a bit. All the vilain calls after represent a small A at least.

Unfortunately for you, he caught his 9 on the river, which was really lucky. The min raise on that river should have warned you. Easy to say when you're not in the hand, but that's my point of view.

Hey Yank,

Thank you very much for replying!

So this is the my 3rd hand at the table, so not sure about the oppo here.

Ok, so you think 3BB is too small of a bet here? I generally raise much more than that, I always feel like I scare all the value out if I go more than that, but I am learning, so I'll take note!

Yeah was scared of the A, that's why I raised only 4BB with 10.5BB worth of pot to try to gather some info. I stopped being scared when he checked back to me at the Turn.

Interesting point about the river min raise, you think that should've told me that he was trying to get value out of me? In any case, wasn't I too committed? He checked back to me so I was the first to act and folding at the min raise felt the wrong choice?

 

[Collin Moshman]

Every bet should have a purpose.

There's not a very good reason to bet with KK on flop, turn, and river here. Only better hands are likely to call you. You're almost turning this hand into a bluff, but I wouldn't count on many hands containing an ace to fold.

I suggest raising to 4.5bb pre-flop;

Check back flop;

Bet turn;

Check back river.

The reason is that a worse hand is only likely to pay off one, or at most two, bets after the flop.

Thanks for posting this interesting hand!

 

[stylebender72]

preflop was standard
flop I dont mind cbetting range using 30% pot
turn is 100% check back with KK QQ JJ TT 99 8Xs to pot control, I dont know what you were targeting to extract value from by betting not just two streets but 3 streets you bet the river as well knowing that his calling range is crushing your kings, after his river raise it was a very clear fold he is never value betting worse and he has no bluffs at all as the sizing he used generates no fold equity so pot odds were irrelevant you just loved your kings.

 

[cifacia]

Thank you guys for the replies! I certainly now understand the mistake and learned a lot!

 

[eetenor]

Hi!

I am getting back into poker after a small stint during my first year of college where I used to play a bit with friends.

Context is a deepstack 1euro, I have KK but ended up losing this is the hand:


PokerStars - 125/250 Ante 30 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players


CO: 199.6 BB
Hero (BTN): 204.38 BB
SB: 202.1 BB
BB: 192.16 BB
UTG: 200.38 BB
MP: 201.38 BB

6 players post ante of 0.12 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.22 BB) Hero has K♦ K♠

UTG calls 1 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, BB calls 2 BB, UTG calls 2 BB

Flop: (10.22 BB, 3 players) 2♠ A♥ 8♣
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets 4 BB, BB calls 4 BB, fold

Turn: (18.22 BB, 2 players) 6♣
BB checks, Hero bets 4 BB, BB calls 4 BB

River: (26.22 BB, 2 players) 9♣
BB checks, Hero bets 13.11 BB, BB raises to 26.22 BB, Hero calls 13.11 BB

BB shows 9♥ 9♠ (Three of a Kind, Nines)
(Pre 19%, Flop 8%, Turn 5%)
Hero mucks K♦ K♠ (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 81%, Flop 92%, Turn 95%)
BB wins 78.67 BB



So I have the strong feeling I played badly, but is it the following a better pattern?

Pre: I guess 3BB was alright here?

Flop: The bet was weak, I was mostly fishing for re-raising to check if there was an A there that was checking back to me. Maybe should've aggressed more?

Turn: Here I feel like I did the crucial mistake. Given that no one re raised on flop and here I got checked back, I should've done a much more sizeable bet? I guess 99 would have been scared off?

River: Not sure why I was not feeling he was chasing the flush, so in my head this was to get value. On the re-raise I had to call as I had too much invested in the pot and liked my odds vs the pot.


Is my read over what went on correct? Did I make other mistakes? I am really keen in improving my game and I am trying to analyse when I have a strong feeling of a hand I should've won

Thank U 4 Posting

On the river when our V check raises min we need to think about does our V expects us to fold. If not then what could they be betting that we beat? Would QQ JJ 1010 min check raise?

By taking notes you may begin to notice that min raises at your stakes is 98% nut like hands like a set of 999 or A9-888-666-222

So had the V missed the 9 would this V call your river sizing?
If the V had A5 would they call?

Hope this helps

 

[2blive]

It seems like your self-assessment is pretty good. 3 BB pre is not bad, some coaches say that is the max you should ever raise preflop. However, with sticky players, more is sometimes better and pending situation even all in, but here 3 BB is not bad. Flop and Turn are the problem areas that materialize on the river which is in need of some reflection. By the time the V calls on the flop, he is calling 4bb to win a pot of 18.22 consider implied odds when he hits and that's not a bad call. The turn is worse. Sometimes you need to tell your opponent what you got. A big bet here should take the pot. The pot is 18.22 plus your 4 = 22.22 he is getting 5.5 to one to call and after he calls the pot is 26.22. Now when the 3rd club falls on the river, not to mention the two straights that got there, considering the stage of the tournament, this is an easy check back as only better hands are calling or raising.
Hope this helps.