Learning Limitations in Freerolls

[bellicoso]

So, I'm going to contradict myself with this post... As recently as a couple of weeks ago I would've argued that you can apply things you learn about the game of poker to a freeroll... that was until I started to learn more deeply about the game. Now, I have to say that freerolls have their limitations. The first and most obvious thing being that the number of donkeys you'll face is extremely limiting.

You can't put them on a sensible range, they shove (a lot) too often, have no idea how to play in or out of position, and forget bet-sizing, it's just not there for them. Multiply this by any good number of players, with even just a couple hundred people in it, and you're asking for chaos.

Am I a pro? Absolutely not. But I'm no donk either. I spend a decent amount of time at study compared to play and have learned a lot over the last month.

With the chaos in a freeroll, it's unlikely (in my opinion now) that you'll find that perfect groove to apply your knowledge in the game to win with any consistency. In short, there will be limitations to the amount of good information you can receive on these players, and you'll hardly ever have an opportunity to successfully apply any misinformation against them, as these players tend to call everything.

I'm not saying I'll no longer participate in them. The games have their place, I think, as a starting off point at least, and they can be entertaining. However, I'll no longer advocate for them as a platform from which a player can successfully grow into a competent one. I only find that I can only truly apply what I've learned when a deposit has been made and I'm playing against others who are risking part of their bankroll.

Of course, this is just my opinion based on my experiences so far. I could be totally wrong. I must always be willing to accept that is a possibility in order to continue to grow... Anyway, I hope this post makes sense and helps players who may be becoming frustrated with any freeroll challenges they're on.

Always keep learning and practicing. Best of luck to everyone going forward!

 

[thetick33]

So, I'm going to contradict myself with this post... As recently as a couple of weeks ago I would've argued that you can apply things you learn about the game of poker to a freeroll... that was until I started to learn more deeply about the game. Now, I have to say that freerolls have their limitations. The first and most obvious thing being that the number of donkeys you'll face is extremely limiting.

You can't put them on a sensible range, they shove (a lot) too often, have no idea how to play in or out of position, and forget bet-sizing, it's just not there for them. Multiply this by any good number of players, with even just a couple hundred people in it, and you're asking for chaos.

Am I a pro? Absolutely not. But I'm no donk either. I spend a decent amount of time at study compared to play and have learned a lot over the last month.

With the chaos in a freeroll, it's unlikely (in my opinion now) that you'll find that perfect groove to apply your knowledge in the game to win with any consistency. In short, there will be limitations to the amount of good information you can receive on these players, and you'll hardly ever have an opportunity to successfully apply any misinformation against them, as these players tend to call everything.

I'm not saying I'll no longer participate in them. The games have their place, I think, as a starting off point at least, and they can be entertaining. However, I'll no longer advocate for them as a platform from which a player can successfully grow into a competent one. I only find that I can only truly apply what I've learned when a deposit has been made and I'm playing against others who are risking part of their bankroll.

Of course, this is just my opinion based on my experiences so far. I could be totally wrong. I must always be willing to accept that is a possibility in order to continue to grow... Anyway, I hope this post makes sense and helps players who may be becoming frustrated with any freeroll challenges they're on.

Always keep learning and practicing. Best of luck to everyone going forward!

17 years online poker 100% of what ive played for came out of freerolls ie withdrawn on oever 60 sites......

i play freerolls like i play live or tournaments id play for money....

i have my system it works for any size or buy in event ive beaten 14k people on pokerstars more then once..... and played probably well over 10 million hands of poker......

key is to take notes especially on bad players early the hardest place to play is going to be pokerstars or larger freerolls

your looking for freerolls with 200 or less people to make it worthwhile often imho

you need notes on this field of players in US games is same people all the time..... you cannot use ranges with the SUPER good players if mood strikes or if feel like it I can play anything any position etc...

your JOB in HANDS you play is simple make X or xxx think. If you do that you can be a winning player on any poker arena..... NOW play your game everyone has a different game but play yours do not worry what others do as much as worry on your decisions why you made them etc..... problem with freerolls is a TON of players cannot play from behind on limited stacks use this knowledge they will shove with marginable hands you can NOTE this over time

keep up the work you will and can apply it to any arena or buy in

 

[rj_montana]

In my experience, the play on freerolls is comparable/slightly worse than the play in micros-low limit stakes MTTs on pokerstars.

I can understand you may be frustrated with players push/folding stacks up to 25bb but that doesn't mean those shoves are incorrect or "donkey".

I've also played in some $100+ buy in games online and the play in those is definitely on another level. The average freeroll//micro player will get eaten alive.

 

[Refinado Tom]

I think that unfortunately in the early stages of a freeroll with hundreds of players you have to play as a donk and beg to reach the final stages.

 

[TheDev]

I feel that no matter the type of tournament, size of the buy-in, even how many players per table, starting off slow and only playing premium hands is the smart move. Study how your opponents play and when you get a feel for their style you can make more educated moves depending on your position, stack size, amount of players in the hand, etc. Nothing is full proof in poker but knowing the players you are playing against is one of the most important things you can do. At least that's how I try to approach every table I sit down at.

 

[Uncloggie]

You have to learn to adjust your play according to the situation. A free roll with 1-2 maybe 3 or 4 payouts if there's enough rebuys, with thousands competing, every hour or so , such as at poker stars right now, is hardly worth taking seriously. Regular freerolls with a limited amount of regulars are a much better bet. Taking notes as others suggested. I simply color code and rarely add more notes unless these are especially atrocious players. Cheers !

 

[This Fish Chums]

I've always felt that the problem with freerolls as a learning device is that it teaches you the wrong way of playing. People in freerolls do things that people in $1/2 tables would never do. It makes you think you can reliably take advantage of people who play that way and then you go up to the bigger stakes and fall into a massive trap.

 

[digdug0037]

IDK I was watching a 15/30 cash game a couple of nights ago and it was amazing seeing people raise each other 200/400/1000 and then winning with just a J high. It seems like it is common place no matter the range of players that poker is a game of the ultimate gamble period. Of coarse in freeroll, nobody has anything to lose so its just crazy in the early stages period,

 

[zinzir]

Excellent players (both pros and amateurs) do not play freerolls simply because the prizes are too small to be worth their while, and not because they find freerolls hard to win.

Freerolls have softer fields than any other MTTs because the average freeroll player is less experienced and makes more mistakes, and for people learning the game they are not only helpful, but ideal I dare to say. For a similar playing field they are also easier to win than any other MMT.

No disrespect intended, but thinking that you can't learn poker because freerollers don't use the standard betting size mentioned in your book shows, in my opinion, that you should actually play only freerolls and save yourself a ton of money.

 

[10gerka]

Freeroll is important because you can win banking, but your game does not improve, there are many who push too much, play quite horrible, so there you can not draw conclusions to apply your game.

 

[terryk]

So,you would rather sit at a table with "experienced players only",,,, makes sense.

 

[bellicoso]

Just to follow up; I've taken second place twice in the past week on a smaller stakes MTT on GP that players take seriously enough not to be facing a three way all-in every other hand.

It's refreshing. I can play any style I want (depending on the other players).

Freerolls are nothing but a place to learn the basics and maybe win a little money once in a while. The exception being when I played CC freerolls. Again, the player base took the game seriously enough that it was enjoyable and I could actually apply the things I've learned. The rest? Meh...

 

[thetick33]

Just to follow up; I've taken second place twice in the past week on a smaller stakes MTT on GP that players take seriously enough not to be facing a three way all-in every other hand.

It's refreshing. I can play any style I want (depending on the other players).

Freerolls are nothing but a place to learn the basics and maybe win a little money once in a while. The exception being when I played CC freerolls. Again, the player base took the game seriously enough that it was enjoyable and I could actually apply the things I've learned. The rest? Meh...

will add one maybe look at a freeroll differently.... play it per table this is what i do at 6 seaters and i win often focus on beating one table at a time......sometimes this means folding a ton for 2 hours honestly..... you have to at times let the game come to you even when have idiots playing..... honestly ive played up to level 50 buy ins and found very questionable to extremely BAD play......ive seen people all in with 400 big blinds to a bigger or smaller stack with ace rag but ive also seen someone do that in world series of poker.... everyone is different the key is being able to read people and your experience..... its invaluable as a poker player.....

is times you have an ultra aggro shoving all in over 80%of hands you have to wait it out as frustrating as that is..... especially if they get a stack that way and keep playing that way..... waiting on that big hand is the right thing honestly if freeroll is worth your time...... that is the biggest thing being a person whom plays 4 games at once playing a freeroll or two helps the bankroll.... also im focused on the bigger tourneys two of them more seeing that they will mostly be over 1k for payouts..... freerolls if get hundred pay your doing well and under 200 people.... wish had access to foreign sites and could play more freerolls would go up to 8 games if had enough freerolls honestly:::: ) if you play decent stakes a couple years come back do some freerolls see how much easier it has become

 

[DS3]

I understand the perspective you are taking, but disagree.

I find this argument similar to one made concerning play money. Which would be no one can take play money seriously, you do not learn properly. I contend it rests solely on your character and personal drive.

Having come to poker as a non-gambler (to learn to deal with variance, a concept alien but interesting to me) I took every play chip I won or lost seriously. As I learnt, primarily through MTTs, I took immense pride in cashing day in and out and building a stack of millions of play chips whilst also dabbling in freerolls outside of CardsChat. That stood me in good stead to join CardsChat.

In that sense I am no different to tens of thousands (well hundreds of thousands) of others – if you are going to play treat it like real money. So, a few months ago I joined the CardsChat Freeroll Club.

I have taken the exact same attitude to the CC FR’s. It is at the core of the learning process and upward trajectory for me. I take pride in being able to navigate the bedlum and chaos of huge fields through to smaller fields with more intense competition. If I do not cash on a given day I am not bent out of shape but am not a happy camper and regard it as a loss.

In fact, I joined the CC FRC, and set an initial goal of cashes to make before reviewing where I stood and entertaining the potential of playing micro-stakes. However, even though satisfied with my play and the cashes I had made, I doubled down on that target. I realize there is so much more to learn at this specific level. Besides which if I am adding to my starters bankroll on a weekly basis, if I hold off for another month or two then I will inevitably be in a better financial position, a more relaxed position to enter the microstakes.

As I have said before, I regard freerolls (in the broadest sense) like a trial by ordeal. Navigating the chaos might be off putting to many but it is particularly gratifying to me. I comprehend I am playing in a madcap scenario – how can you forget? - and don’t ever presume this is what I will find at the next level, whatever that is. That would be a stupid assumption.

 

[wolfik1950]

tournaments from $ 1.10 down, not everyone is serious, from time to time I will play all line in the first hand, no matter what hand I have, the more expensive the tournament, the less such crazy plays, and more skill with​

every hand​

​

​

​