Knowing when you're weak

This Fish Chums

This Fish Chums

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I'd like to see if we can't get a thread started where people identify things that harm their gameplay and possibly how to overcome those things. Some will be obvious, but others might end up being things that happen to people and they've never quite thought if it that way before. I think this would be an exercise players of all skill levels could benefit from. Here's a few I can think of:

Obviously tilt is the most widely known cause of playing below your ability.

Another is actually feeling too good, like after winning a huge pot. If you're not careful you can think you can take on the world and start playing hands you shouldn't play thinking it's your lucky night. Or even just betting more than you normally should thinking you might as well maximize your profits while you are ahead.

Being drunk is probably the funnest thing that lowers your playing ability.

Being desperate can be a big one for me. If I'm low on chips or if I just lost a big hand I get to thinking "I HAVE to win this next hand" or "I have to start winning any hand I play" and end up losing chips because I'm not willing to let a hand go the way I should.

Anyone else?
 
georgi krastev

georgi krastev

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Obviously, the All-in pre-flop is a big problem for me. Somehow I do not want to get rid of this way of playing....
 
MattRyder

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I believe that many, many people (and I'm one of them) routinely assume that the other guy is telling stories out of school. Don't get me wrong, sometimes they (including me) are. But the majority of the time a big bet means a big hand, pure and simple.
 
Waffle3113

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An issue i see myself making is when i catch a straight i loose a little sight of the suits and sometimes get beaten out by the flush. I also see people raise a lot pre flop in the .05/.1 table to usually .30 or .50 they do this often and it seems like they do it with or with out having cards in there hand. Any good way to help battle this issue.
 
sedlacekj

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An issue i see myself making is when i catch a straight i loose a little sight of the suits and sometimes get beaten out by the flush. I also see people raise a lot pre flop in the .05/.1 table to usually .30 or .50 they do this often and it seems like they do it with or with out having cards in there hand. Any good way to help battle this issue.

The best way to beat the first one is to know ranges, and recognise betting patterns of individual players. Many times you can tell if they have the nuts or are bluffing the flush.
The best way to beat the big openers at cash tables is to have the nuts and go all-in. Short of that, you identify the players doing this and 3-bet them with any good hand. Try to isolate them and get head-to-head, then get your chips in. One-by-one, you will eliminate this type of player.
 
Waffle3113

Waffle3113

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The best way to beat the first one is to know ranges, and recognise betting patterns of individual players. Many times you can tell if they have the nuts or are bluffing the flush.
The best way to beat the big openers at cash tables is to have the nuts and go all-in. Short of that, you identify the players doing this and 3-bet them with any good hand. Try to isolate them and get head-to-head, then get your chips in. One-by-one, you will eliminate this type of player.



Okay thats sounds good i will try that tonight whenever I'm dealt a good enough hand,

What are your thoughts on palying more than one table at a time I see alot of people doing this. I feel like i want to call more playing one hand but if i was in at more than one table i think i feel like i could fold reasonably more hands this way and feel better about folding hands and waiting.
 
sedlacekj

sedlacekj

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I believe that many, many people (and I'm one of them) routinely assume that the other guy is telling stories out of school. Don't get me wrong, sometimes they (including me) are. But the majority of the time a big bet means a big hand, pure and simple.

Before you decide a villain is bluffing, try to get a read on him. Good players will have some bluffs. Bad players bluff all the time or are too nit to bluff. That being said, the bet sizing that player uses will determine what percentages of bluffs are profitable. For example if a person bets 1/2 pot, it is profitable to bluff 1/3 of their hands. Many players do bet around 1/2 pot, so they should theoretically have a fair number of bluff hands in their range. On your end, if you see them bet 1/2 pot and decide they are bluffing, you theoretically will be right only 1/3 of the time and wrong 2/3. This example is based on normal good player bluffs from an optimality theory. Most players are not that exact, but this is enough to show why you need a read before assuming a bluff. Another thing, most good players bluff a hand that still has equity in it. It could become the nuts with the right draw. That way you can still get beaten by their bluff hands around 1/3 of the time. If they are carefully doing this, then they are not bluffing 2/3 of the time and the 1/3 they are bluffing, they will win 1/3 of those (or 1/9 of the total hands). That means your net loss is 7 out of 9 times when you decide they are bluffing and you call their bluff, and you only win 2/7. If you know the player bluffs too much or is way off from the math suggested here, then you might be able to profitably call his bluff. Also if their betting strategy reveals their hand, you may be able to call the bluff profitably. Most of the time when I've tried to call bluffs, I find they had the nuts -- no bluff. I've lost a fair number of times calling with AA also. Example: Villain goes all-in preflop with 100 BB, I have AA, so I call. Cards go face up, he has QQ. Flop comes out Q48. Nothing on turn or river. I lose. Another time, Villain goes all-in preflop, I have KK, so I call. same thing, but he has J5s (a bluff). Flop comes out JT5. Nothing on turn or river. I lose. Rule of thumb, if the bet is too big, it is probably not profitable to call. You might win a certain percentage of the time, but early in a tourney busting out is no fun.
 
sedlacekj

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Okay thats sounds good i will try that tonight whenever I'm dealt a good enough hand,

What are your thoughts on palying more than one table at a time I see alot of people doing this. I feel like i want to call more playing one hand but if i was in at more than one table i think i feel like i could fold reasonably more hands this way and feel better about folding hands and waiting.

Basically, learn to play a really sound game, so that you always know how you should play any hand at any position on the table first, then do multiple tables next. Once you have a sound game down, it is not difficult to make quick decisions on any given hand, thus reducing your "think" time and you can move to the 2nd table or 3rd. If you are multi-tabling, and you find yourself unable to calculate equity and pot odds, along with keeping track of specific player behaviour, you will lose more multi-tabling than single-tabling. If you think you are ready, try a low stakes with 2 tables of the same type of game first. The fist time I did 2-4 tables, all different games, and that was nuts. I had a buy-in tourney, a freeroll tourney, a Venom step, and a cash game. Since each were different, I got lost fast. Also if I get multiple screens beeping telling me "its your turn" then I get overwhelmed and have trouble doing the math. Even if I eliminate these problems by playing 4 tables of the same sort of game, I often lose track of individual player behaviours. I can usually do 2 at a time with no troubles, and I have around 30,000 hands played. Only way to know is give it a try. Start out with 2 tables of the same type of game first, and small stakes, then go up from there.
 
Waffle3113

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Basically, learn to play a really sound game, so that you always know how you should play any hand at any position on the table first, then do multiple tables next. Once you have a sound game down, it is not difficult to make quick decisions on any given hand, thus reducing your "think" time and you can move to the 2nd table or 3rd. If you are multi-tabling, and you find yourself unable to calculate equity and pot odds, along with keeping track of specific player behaviour, you will lose more multi-tabling than single-tabling. If you think you are ready, try a low stakes with 2 tables of the same type of game first. The fist time I did 2-4 tables, all different games, and that was nuts. I had a buy-in tourney, a freeroll tourney, a Venom step, and a cash game. Since each were different, I got lost fast. Also if I get multiple screens beeping telling me "its your turn" then I get overwhelmed and have trouble doing the math. Even if I eliminate these problems by playing 4 tables of the same sort of game, I often lose track of individual player behaviours. I can usually do 2 at a time with no troubles, and I have around 30,000 hands played. Only way to know is give it a try. Start out with 2 tables of the same type of game first, and small stakes, then go up from there.



I dont think I'm ready for multi table just yet but I see quite a few regulars on Betonline so if I can leave how they play first and keep some notes, then i see it will be a little easier to do multi tables with them. The only reason I had asked about multi table is because I see 3 or 4 of the same players spread across the low limit tables at the same time.
 
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When i am winning the day before. I cannot stop play the next day with the aim building my bankroll quickly, even though i am losing money.
 
Phoenix Wright

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As mentioned, tilt is very real for most players. Same with over-confidence and things like that. One thing not on this list that I think is worth mentioning is also losing confidence in some part of your poker ability. Say I had this strong read on this person and when we get to showdown, I find out that I was completely wrong. Granted, we can't realistically be correct 100% of the time, but sometimes this really messes with your confidence at spotting your reads for a few hands after. This principle can also apply to being trapped by an opponent, over-playing a hand or many other things. However, I think the more psychology based ones are harder to deal with because they are more abstract.

The way to overcome this is to build up your confidence again and sometimes that means tightening up and playing more straight-forward poker for a few hands.
 
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