This is a discussion on KK on a paired board within the online poker forums, in the Learning Poker section; Cardschat daily Freeroll, relatively early in the tournament (9 man table)
I am being dealt Kd Kc in the Cutoff, stack size is about 120 BB.
Well first of all villain only called preflop. With AA would he not 4bet with 3 players in already? And then you say QQ .. Would he really be so agressive with such strong hand? I think answer to both questions would be more No then Yes. But im not a professor, what do i know.
Also, you checked back the flop ... Why would you do that? Youre preflop agressor. By checking back here you show that Q on the flop might be scary for you and therefore Villain could easily go nuts with QJ or somthing.
Also his deep stack in the early stage tells me he likes to put his chips in the middle.
So yes i think you played it poorly.
Like a scaredy-cat.
This should have been posted in the hand history section. But anyways it was a 3-bet pot, where BTN cold called your 3-bet, and then the original raiser called as well creating a pot of around 40BB with 108BB left behind, so an SPR of around 2,75. Flop came Qd3d3s, you have KdKc.
Right off the bat I am certainly not looking to fold this hand. I am very happy about the situation thinking, its highly unlikly, they called my 3-bet with a 3 in their hand, and if they did, then good for them. Maybe the original raiser could have A3s, but there are only 2 combos of that hand, there are only 3 combos of QQ, and only 1 combo of 33, which would be a very loose call of the 3-bet as well. So this is one of the absolute best boards, you could even hope to see with KK, and with a pot, thats already huge, my only thought here is, how do I stack off in the most profitable way?
And barring a read, that BTN was overly aggressive, I do lean towards making a small C-bet like 30-40% pot. Its pretty likely, someone could have AQ or maybe KQ, and they are of course not folding top pair on the flop. They could also have any pocket pair from 44-JJ, and those hands will likely also peel at least one bet, especially if BTN folds, and HJ now looks down at say 99. Then he will think, he is still beating AK and continue.
You did check though, and thats not a terrible play either. On a paired board it can induce some players to spazz, and you did have someone behind you. He bet full pot, which on the paired board basically looks like a wild bluff. So now you need to follow through on the plan and give him the rope to continue hanging himself on the turn. He did pile the rest in, and you absolutely need to make this call, especially since the flushdraw missed.
You are good here at least 90 % of the time. If he had AA, he would have 4-bet preflop, and if he had QQ, he would not go for this massive bet sizing. Remember that QQ flopped a full house, so there is no need for him to force a flushdraw out of the pot, when these hands are drawing dead. So mostly this is either a wild bluff or a hand like AQ or A3s playing fast for "protection". You beat AQ, so you are even ahead of most of his value range, and this is why, folding here is a very big mistake. I am not going to sugarcoat it, because this one is in no way, shape or form close.
abgvedr, Vlaad, Collin Moshman, alien666dj, RedGnom, eetenor liked this post
Fundiver and Abg are right; we need to be willing to get it all-in here. AA likely reraises pre and QQ is less likely not just because of how fast he plays it, but also because there is already a queen on board making few remaining ways for him to have this specific hand (3 QQ hand combos).
More likely, he has either a single queen or nothing. Considering that we are also getting very good odds, we can be happy to get it in here.
Cardschat daily Freeroll, relatively early in the tournament (9 man table)
I am being dealt Kd Kc in the Cutoff, stack size is about 120 BB. Villain on the Button has 234 BBs.
UTG +1 limps
Hijack raises to 4 BBs
I 3-bet to 12 BBs
Button (Villain) calls
UTG +1 calls
FLOP: Qd 3d 3s
Villain bets 41,5 BBs
Villain bets 69 BBs, forcing me to go all-in or fold
I fold, since I put him on AA or QQ
First of all, I think I played this hand poorly. In hindsight, I think I should have bet the Flop and called the turn.
What do you think? How would you have played this hand?
Thank you for posting.
We want to be sure of our V's ranges before we reduce it to the nuts.
So how do we know preflop what other hands our V flats in a freeroll when they have 200+ bb
1 How did this V win this many BB? Tight range that held loose range that hit?
2 Many freeroll V over value AQ in this spot would this V fold it preflop?
3 Many V call JJ TT 99 would this V?
4 Some V QJs is a call here so is KQs this V?
Flop range analysis
1 Why would a player skilled enough to trap with AA preflop bet so large on the flop to protect from what? To expect value from what? They called a 3 bet we know they could have the Q so we can fold JJ-99 to one bet and should if we think they have the range you suggest.
2 How can this player be under skilled and not 4 bet AA but big bet it on the flop when checked to?
3 What player of any skill set bets pot with the nuts here? Why risk AK JJ-99 folding to such strength. What player can put you specifically on AA KK when you check flop and know they can get your stack by betting that size? QQ is just not going to make this size of bet on this board even the worst players think slow play full houses.
So we cannot put our V on the range you suggest. Does this mean we do not lose this pot when we call no. This V may very well play as you think but we cannot know it until we see it.
As played the V could have QJ JJ both early players checked the V then makes a get out of my pot sized bet.
So our V as played can have AA A3 but also KK AQ KQ QJ JJ TT AdJd and play this way in a freeroll. We cannot fold when we beat more hands than we lose to.
As to your check if you never check in that spot again in a freeroll you will be playing close to perfectly. Size your bet less than half pot. Then if raised we can then think about if we are beat but really it is ok to lose your stack here.
Just keep betting to get stacks in or check turn if you think V does not expect you to bet AK twice. Then call off the V's shove as again they should not be shoving better.
I don't understand why you didn't call. Villains with high pocket pairs will always make a huge re-raise on the preflop. He is unaware of your pocket KK and will attack with AQ, KQ. If he has a three, then he is lucky. But if you are afraid, then check-raise on the flop. This will clarify the situation instantly.
i think villain most likely has aq or kq, however there is also the possibilty that villain is slowplaying a pair of aces by just calling the 3 bet and then making a big value bet postflop.i think you should have gone all in though because in most cases you will be ahead considering the way villain has played the hand both preflop and postflop making it less likely that he has aces or queens.
I would recommend just betting the flop here like several others suggested. And I am definitely stacking off on a board this dry. I think putting villain squarely on AA or QQ is far too narrow of a range.