How much waiting is enough?

J

Jack Reacher

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Let's presume that you are tight player who only plays premium hands.Now this type of cards is not possible getting so fast so it 's a game in waiting.Do you always wait to the moment where you are under 5 big blinds in stack or something always provokes you to fire earlier?By premium cards i mean AA,KK,QQ,JJ,1010,99 and AK.Can this patient tight game be applied to a cardschat tournament or not?And why?
 
akmost

akmost

Rising Star
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GR
Many players play like you mentioned above. IMHO this strategy is profitable to a degree but I don't think that keep waiting in order to push or 3 bet jam with the top of your range is the most profitable strategy.

The above hands you mentioned are just monsters preflop , other type of hands like 98s+ are also considered as standard open shoves but many inexperienced players don't realize it. In CC games this may be a profitable strategy but I don't think that the same one will take you far in a real poker game.

For example I would be more than happy to open shove my KTs in late position with 10bbs and I will know that the play is always +EV.

Take a look at this link , I have shared it many times before , hope that some players will wake up : https://floattheturn.com/wp/pushfold/

Blinded out is something you should avoid , if you push your 5bbs and the players yet to act are deep in bbs they don't have much fold equity so they will call you lighter and a flip is always a flip.The best hand preflop breaks many times postflop.

Hope I helped you a little bit.
 
milka1605

milka1605

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I am a mid-level player. Looking through my statistics at pokerstars, I noticed a pattern. I enter the game to see a flop with an indicator of 1 time for 9-10 hands. If I watch the flop more often then this is bad for the stack. I lose chips more than I replenish. The range of hands you have already described the previous player.
 
poliaris747

poliaris747

Legend
I think you need to try different strategies of the game! After all, you can not play the same with different players the same way! The quality of most players on our site is very high!
 
stillgotouts

stillgotouts

Enthusiast
I try to read the table and follow tight strategy unless i feel like my raise will get through and win me the blinds often enough to be profitable. I'd love to hear more about stealing if anyone has some ideas on it!

Thanks!
 
R

RocwX

Rock Star
Do you mean it only when you're short stacked or in any scenario? If your poker strategy is to always fold unless you have the premium hands, than you should rethink it. Other players will quickly see what you're doing and you'll never extract many chips since they know you're holding a monster.

If you mean to do that only when you're short stacked, I can see the point. I don't think waiting forever is the best approach. If your stack becomes too small, you're not making anyone afraid of calling you and you could attract too many people to the flop, making even the premium hands lose a lot of equity. If you're getting close to 10 BBs, consider shoving with any reasonable hand you can get like middle pairs or Ax.
 
Poker_Mike

Poker_Mike

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Let's presume that you are tight player who only plays premium hands.Now this type of cards is not possible getting so fast so it 's a game in waiting.Do you always wait to the moment where you are under 5 big blinds in stack or something always provokes you to fire earlier?By premium cards i mean AA,KK,QQ,JJ,1010,99 and AK.Can this patient tight game be applied to a cardschat tournament or not?And why?


I become concerned with my stack when I approach 15 BB.

This is when I have to consider the hands I have seen my opponents show.

I am looking for a spot to steal blinds and even better double me up!

Yes a good tight strategy will work fine in CC tournaments.

Why? Because premium hands have a better advantage of winning the hand. Therefore you should raise preflop to thin the field and realize value. So important to realize value!

Good luck !
 
B

bstest

Visionary
I understand you dilemma. When I run cold I try to recognize it quick, for better or worse, and play much less premium hands. To be truthful it hasn't worked well yet but I'm still under the illusion I can outplay most players post flop. I've learned that a good amount of coffee is involved.
 
Eric Salvador

Eric Salvador

Visionary
People will be playing a wide range and don't fold easy you need to open up your range and look to punish people who are calling stations
 
eberetta1

eberetta1

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1500 chips is not many chips. You probably have 3 hands you can go in before the chipstack is insignificant. I have learned that some tournaments just will not fall in my favor and have learned to accept it as part of the game. Most of the time if I can be fortunate to get my chip stack to 8500 chips in a CC game, I can find my way to the ITM.
 
J

Jack Reacher

Visionary
Awards
8
Many players play like you mentioned above. IMHO this strategy is profitable to a degree but I don't think that keep waiting in order to push or 3 bet jam with the top of your range is the most profitable strategy.

The above hands you mentioned are just monsters preflop , other type of hands like 98s+ are also considered as standard open shoves but many inexperienced players don't realize it. In CC games this may be a profitable strategy but I don't think that the same one will take you far in a real poker game.

For example I would be more than happy to open shove my KTs in late position with 10bbs and I will know that the play is always +EV.

Take a look at this link , I have shared it many times before , hope that some players will wake up : https://floattheturn.com/wp/pushfold/

Blinded out is something you should avoid , if you push your 5bbs and the players yet to act are deep in bbs they don't have much fold equity so they will call you lighter and a flip is always a flip.The best hand preflop breaks many times postflop.

Hope I helped you a little bit.



Your last sentence is 100% true.Thank you for the book a book is always a gold.So you will take your chances with hands like K10s earlier rather than waiting for the stronger preflop hand?
 
J

Jack Reacher

Visionary
Awards
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I am a mid-level player. Looking through my statistics at Pokerstars, I noticed a pattern. I enter the game to see a flop with an indicator of 1 time for 9-10 hands. If I watch the flop more often then this is bad for the stack. I lose chips more than I replenish. The range of hands you have already described the previous player.


Does that means that you get more chips when you are playing once in 11 or more hands or 9/10 hands is your golden middle.
 
J

Jack Reacher

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Awards
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I think you need to try different strategies of the game! After all, you can not play the same with different players the same way! The quality of most players on our site is very high!
Yeap but you are forgetting the fact that i already knows almost every player style on cc.
 
J

Jack Reacher

Visionary
Awards
8
I understand you dilemma. When I run cold I try to recognize it quick, for better or worse, and play much less premium hands. To be truthful it hasn't worked well yet but I'm still under the illusion I can outplay most players post flop. I've learned that a good amount of coffee is involved.
Espresso or regular?
 
J

Jack Reacher

Visionary
Awards
8
1500 chips is not many chips. You probably have 3 hands you can go in before the chipstack is insignificant. I have learned that some tournaments just will not fall in my favor and have learned to accept it as part of the game. Most of the time if I can be fortunate to get my chip stack to 8500 chips in a CC game, I can find my way to the ITM.
With 8500 chips you are definitely in the money.Whit what type of cards will you go on the flop that three times?
 
Dailon Arroyo Blandon

Dailon Arroyo Blandon

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Awards
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It is clear that the strategy to use is different for the tournaments and for the cash tables ... In a tournament in its initial phase it is normal to have pascience and wait for premium hands ... however if you are at a point in where you only have 10bbs or less ... you have to open your range of hands because the blinds eat your chips ...
 
L

LuisBoaC

Rock Star
Firstly I don't like your definition of premium hands, I don't think you can put 99 and AA in the same bracket.
Regarding your question, I used to play a similar style to what you're suggesting, basically only playing pocket pairs of high connectors until I got under 10BB, then shoving with a much wider range. I found this to be too tight, I achieved a very small lose-rate over several months.
Nowadays I mix my style a lot more, reacting to the table in general and making each decision based on specific factors each time, e.g. SPR, position, hand strength, etc and have achieved a small win-rate over 6-8 weeks
 
T

Tatomircg

Rock Star
Let's presume that you are tight player who only plays premium hands.Now this type of cards is not possible getting so fast so it 's a game in waiting.Do you always wait to the moment where you are under 5 big blinds in stack or something always provokes you to fire earlier?By premium cards i mean AA,KK,QQ,JJ,1010,99 and AK.Can this patient tight game be applied to a cardschat tournament or not?And why?

playing only premium hands,not makes u sure to win,from time to time is ok to join with small hands if bet is not big,u might be surprised
 
akmost

akmost

Rising Star
Awards
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GR
Your last sentence is 100% true.Thank you for the book a book is always a gold.So you will take your chances with hands like K10s earlier rather than waiting for the stronger preflop hand?


Absolutely yes , take a look at the site I shared in my previous post with the push/fold charts and bookmark it on your browser in order to have easy access.That chart is not made buy a fun player, I rely on it. Apparently you can tighten up your ranges but waiting only for your top range to push is the worst idea ever.Believe me!

Your target whenever you play a MTT it should be maintain a healthy stack in order to play some poker and not only all ins. That's why you shouldn't be only results oriented.If you open shove with KTs 10bbs deep and you lost the flip it's ok,GG,let's go for the next game.That's poker. If you win it though it would be beneficial for your run and for your stack.

In a large MTT with many participants with regular speed the 15-20 bbs is the time we start to consider some push fold plays. I personally don't open shove with 20bb stacks but I am telling you what is the approach I see whenever I play. I am not a professional but I am not totally unaware about what is happening out there.

The matter here is to make +EV plays and hopefully in the longterm we will be profitable.That's my humble opinion and that is how I approach my game!


Good Luck
 
A

Anna Nikolaeva

Enthusiast
It is clear that the strategy to use is different for the tournaments and for the cash tables ... In a tournament in its initial phase it is normal to have pascience and wait for premium hands ... however if you are at a point in where you only have little , you have to open your range of hands because the blinds eat your chips . But should be approached wisely and not play all hands
 
playinggameswithu

playinggameswithu

Legend
I'd jam at min 9 BB. If you wait for 5 BB then aces 3 way only becomes 15bb with 40% failure rate pre flop. JAM Baby JAM K9s or better.
 
tauri103

tauri103

Legend
Personally I try to always play a wide game especially at the beginning as long as the blind allow me. But I take good care to choose the right time to move.This may depend on my position or the profitability of the pot and players present on the table.I prefer to play tighten when the blind become too expensive or to enjoy a good reputation on the table. If you play tight all the time you will have trouble to advance in the tournament because the blind does not stop increasing.
 
eberetta1

eberetta1

Legend
Awards
7
With 8500 chips you are definitely in the money.Whit what type of cards will you go on the flop that three times?


Beginning of game, only premium hands looking to double up. Mid game, i will play suited connectors because people assume i have AA or KK, so some folks will fold when I raise after missing a flop.. End game, lots of times people fold to the blinds, so I win a few extra hands this way.
 
D

Das4ever

Rock Star
This strategy good for couple levels but when anties in plays you should play more aggressive
 
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