How many hands needed to really evaluate ROI ?

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lauestla

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Hello CC members,

Everything in the title :D
I wonder from which amount of hands played does ROI start to really make sense.
Thanks for your answers.
 
Nafor

Nafor

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It really takes a large sample before one can reliably analyze one's performance. This is usually thousands of hands.
 
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lauestla

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It really takes a large sample before one can reliably analyze one's performance. This is usually thousands of hands.


Thanks for the answer :)
Since I restarted poker after a break, I only played 7300 hands, amount which is probably not sufficient for the ROI to make sense.
It should soon decrease while hands amount increasing :D
 
Yakk

Yakk

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About Evaluate Hands

Greetings;
In order to be able to evaluate your results with some objectivity, you need a very large sample of hands played and that will depend on the modality in which you have been playing.
Some connoisseurs indicate for example for Cash-Game a minimum sample of 100,000 hands. for other modalities such as MTT it could be that this sample is small and 500,000 hands are required to be able to analyze your level of play.
The results of the samples do not necessarily indicate in an absolute way your true level of play but they are indicative of whether you have been improving over time.
The important thing is that if you dedicate or dedicate the time to obtain this type of sample is that you do your own analysis from time to time about your performance, about your results from each session, because your game should gradually improve.
Remember knowing how to play poker is a long learning process, full of achievements and many failures.
The most important thing is your dedication and perseverance in obtaining better results.


 
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alien666dj

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I was able to find out my ROI after playing 20,000+ hands and you can already see the approximate state of your game. Although many say that only starting from 40,000+ hands you need to look at ROI. How many people, so many opinions.
 
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fundiver199

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ROI is a term used by tournament players and means Return On Investment. If for instance you bought in for 1.000$ and had a net loss of 150$, then your ROI is negative 15%.

Variance in tournaments depend on the payout structure. If you play heads up or DoN Sngs, where you either dubble your money (barring rake) or lose, you will know your true performance relatively fast. At the other end of the spectrum its nearly impossible for anyone to play enough identical MTTs with 10.000 players to ever really know, if their result was down to luck or skill.

Cash game players usually measure their winrate in BB / 100 hands. If for instance you played 10.000 hands in a 2c/5c cash game AKA 5NL and lost 25$, then your winrate is negative 5 BB / 100. There is not a definite point, where you will know your exact winrate, but variance obviously get smaller, the more hands or tournaments you play. Use these free tools to get a better idea of variance in poker:


https://www.primedope.com/poker-variance-calculator/

https://www.primedope.com/tournament-variance-calculator/
 
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lauestla

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Thanks for all your replies. It was very interesting and I learned a lot .
Now let's play and try to increase skills !
 
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tomk7788

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50,000 hands is a good number to evaluate all your stats. VPIP/PFR/3Bet/CBets/WWSF, W$R, BB/100 and everything else.

Also evaluate your win rate with various stating hands and positions.
 
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successlaw

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I think 100k hands should be ok to take some infos about your game
 
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