How many Hands do you throw away on the bubble?

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LosJay

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Being the bubble boy is the most frustrating thing ever. But would you fold any hand to have the chance to get into the money if someone shoves on you, even when you got AA, KK, QQ?
How tight is your range at this point?
 
weralomos

weralomos

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Being the bubble boy is the most frustrating thing ever. But would you fold any hand to have the chance to get into the money if someone shoves on you, even when you got AA, KK, QQ?
How tight is your range at this point?

It all depends on how expensive the tournament is, but our goal is first place, and hands like QQ+ will never make the deck.(ONLY ALL IN)

What's the point of sitting out? If the mate expectation is negative.
 
Zvezda kz

Zvezda kz

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For me, now everything depends on the tournament basket. Once I won several stages and entered the main tournament with a buy-in (I don't remember exactly, about $ 530 or more). And I ended up on the bubble with an above average stack. Preflop I had AA rockets in hand, they raised, 3bet and I called. The opponents had KK and AK in their hands, and AK won, but I did not get into the prizes.
Consider whether you need to take risks on the working stack bubble.
After that I worried for a long time, because I could go very deep in the tournament, and win big money for me at that time. But at the same time, I didn't have the necessary knowledge to play poker well.

In any case, you yourself take responsibility for the decision you make.
In regular tournaments according to my bankroll, I will play according to the situation and everything will depend on many nuances.
 
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F

fernandofcp

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I would never give up AA, KK, QQ to get into the money. I'd rather die trying to win than give up and feel like a failure.
 
Xcoder

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Once on the bubble and depending on the tables action I may play a little tighter, however if I'm one of the top 2 or 3 chip leaders at the table I sometimes use this opportunity to take in extra chips since the lower stacks are mainly just trying to survive past the bubble.
 
FoxMS

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For me, it depends on the amount of prize money. However, I play poker for fun and therefore willing to take risks if the situation is promising.
 
GRIN281289

GRIN281289

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It depends on how many chips I have, what are the prize money and what are my chances of reaching the prize money. I was folding a couple of aces and kings.
 
Navin Sarabjeet

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Being the bubble boy is the most frustrating thing ever. But would you fold any hand to have the chance to get into the money if someone shoves on you, even when you got AA, KK, QQ?
How tight is your range at this point?


I even folded QQ when there was an crazy all-inner maniac and i had a medium stack and there were lots of shorties on the table.
I was not taking the chance with such a stack at that specific moment :p
 
D

dorynel7

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i never fold premium pair in bubble situation, but i play much tight.
 
terryk

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I play to reach the final table,,,not just to min-cash,,,so i play aggressively on the bubble,it's a good way to chip-up because player's are passive on the bubble,,, :deal:
 
L

Lucky_Shark

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I play bubble with JJ+ and AKs hands. I want the top 1 and not the minimum win.
 
H

Hemified

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All depends on my chip stack I guess. I play passive if im low stacking to make the 💰 or if im balling i get aggressive and try to bully every1 else because most are trying to make to bank and go slow and fold. Good luck.
 
K

KayZ

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I play aggressively on the bubble if I have a good stack. Because it's one of the best times to put on weight.
 
TeUnit

TeUnit

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We need way more info to answer this, the best way to figure it out is to run hands through an icm calculator like sngwiz or icmizer.
 
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619Leafs

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If I am on the bubble my range is so tight unless its kings or aces.
 
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Hermus

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As a rule of thumb, you should open shove wider and call tighter on the bubble. Which hands that turn out to be all depend on stack sizes, payout structure, player type etc.
If you focus on making +$EV plays in these spots your long-term ROI will increase. My guess judging from the limited information you provided is that you play too tight on the bubble. Practising bubble spots in an ICM calculator will increase your understanding of what a +$EV shove or call actually is. Just make sure to adjust based on player type once you find yourself at the table.
 
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fundiver199

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As a rule of thumb, you should open shove wider and call tighter on the bubble. Which hands that turn out to be all depend on stack sizes, payout structure, player type etc. If you focus on making +$EV plays in these spots your long-term ROI will increase. My guess judging from the limited information you provided is that you play too tight on the bubble. Practising bubble spots in an ICM calculator will increase your understanding of what a +$EV shove or call actually is. Just make sure to adjust based on player type once you find yourself at the table.

Exactly. Our goal in MTTs should be to maximize our long term EV. If we focus on anything else like "not being the bubble boy", "reaching the final table" or even "going for the win", we are focusing on false achievements. Any of those things migth feel good, but they are not, what matter in the long run. A dollar is a dollar, no matter where in the payout structure we win it.
 
Zapahlohotrona

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AA will never fold preflop. KK QQ folded more than once on the bubble.
 
Baldy86

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if i am short stacked i will only play QQ - AA

if i am big stacked then i sometimes steal with any hand
 
messats

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Being the bubble boy is the most frustrating thing ever. But would you fold any hand to have the chance to get into the money if someone shoves on you, even when you got AA, KK, QQ?
How tight is your range at this point?

if i am in a comfortable position there's no reason to take unnecessary risk or damage to my stack, i throw away 98% of hands
 
R

ROYALROAD

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Even if you say bubble, you should play as usual.
I think you should be careful about the stack size.
 
Roller

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Completely dependent on to many factors to give a quick and easy answer to the question. I wouldn't even know where to begin with it, but i guess if not much thought is put into the game then simply play as if the bubble doesn't exist.
 
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fundiver199

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Practising bubble spots in an ICM calculator will increase your understanding of what a +$EV shove or call actually is. Just make sure to adjust based on player type once you find yourself at the table.

As a help to people, who have never worked with an ICM calculator, lets do just that. First we need to pick a tournament, and I went for a pokerstars 90 man SnG, which is a nice example of a small MTT. 13 places pay, and 13 times the min-cash is around 29% of the price pool. This number is pretty normal for MTTs, so the "bubble pressure" in this event is pretty similar to most other MTTs. Each player start with 1.500 chips, so there are 135.000 chips in play.

To place us on the bubble, I put ICMizer into MTT mode and selected 14 players left, 7 on each table. I gave Hero and 9 other players an average stack of 9643 chips, two players a short stack and two players a big stack. I selected blinds of 600/300 with a 50 ante, which gives Hero and most other players a 16BB stack. Pretty normal for a bubble, that has dragged out a bit, because nobody wants to bust.

Hero now min-raise from CO and gets jammed on by SB, who also has an average stack. We press "ICMize", and the program now calculate the Nash equilibrium, which are the ranges, where neither player win or lose money. Or in other words the GTO ranges assuming, that Hero either min-raise or fold, and SB either jam or fold.

Those ranges are Hero opening 18%, SB jamming 20% and Hero calling 3,7%. Heros calling range is TT+ and AK. So its correct to call pretty tight here, but we are not folding everything, just because we dont want to be the bubble boy. We fold a hand as strong as AQ, but we dont fold QQ and certainly not KK or AA.

Now lets pretend, that the short stack on the other table got busted by an average stack, so that we are now down to 13 players and in the money. Still same 7 players on Heros table, still same stack sizes. Now the Nash equilibrium has Hero opening 26% of hands from CO, SB still jamming 20% and Hero now calling 8,4%. Heros calling range is now 77+, AT+, KQs.

So much wider than before, and Hero is also opening more hands to begin with. But its not like "LOL we are in the money, so now we can just get it in and gamble". We still need to open fairly tight, and we still need to mostly fold, when we get jammed on. Even a hand as strong as KQo is still a fold when jammed on.

I hope, this analysis was helpfull to OP or others. ICMizer gives everyone a free daily calculation for creating an account, so anyone can do this kind of analysis themselfes, which is a great way to increase your understanding of bubble or final table spots. Or you can purchase the program on a monthly basis, if you want to try it out without investing to much.
 
S

scubed

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Being the bubble boy is the most frustrating thing ever. But would you fold any hand to have the chance to get into the money if someone shoves on you, even when you got AA, KK, QQ?
How tight is your range at this point?
ICM is a big consideration. I have folded QQ pre-flop before as I had very few chips and my goal was simply to cash. The strategy worked AND I hit a few double-ups, got luck and made the final table. Rare luck, but was fun.:D
 
scottychase

scottychase

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Too many! But I also profit a lot on the bubble!
 
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