How do you play small pairs OOP vs 3bets?

Luvart

Luvart

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I'm talking about 55-22, maybe the 66.

Let's say opening from early/middle position and facing a 3bet from the CO. Is it always a set-mining thing? If I have the odds to call, I call. If not, I don't call.

These baby pairs are pretty much useless if not improved to a set.

Thoughts?
 
playinggameswithu

playinggameswithu

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Only 6% chance to be dealt a pair...there is a gap between having 22 and QQ are effectively the same against 3 bet AK. I like to just set mine but if I got the balls ill call bets if I think they missed the board with their big broadways...though it is not recommended unless you have a specific read.
 
iwont20

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I would not call a 3bet OOP with 22-55.. And as far as I know these hands are not in a default opening range for EP as it's -EV. Especially in cash games.
 
TeUnit

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It depends on your stack depth, to profitably set mine you want to have at least 30bbs effective stacks. If the effective stacks are shallower you are not getting paid enough when you hit.
 
This Fish Chums

This Fish Chums

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For me it would all depend on your opening bet and the 3-bet size. If you only opened with a couple BBs and the 3 bet is min, then I would play. If you opened with 5BBs and they 3bet to 10-15BBs or more then I would definitely fold.
 
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duson

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I would call depending on my stack size and the size of the 3-bet, it can be profitable on some occasions but for the most part I would considering letting them go.
 
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ph_il

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Depends on stack sizes and if you're getting implied odds to set mine.
 
dunkyhory

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Mostly folding unless it goes multi way or it's deep or if the 3bet is small giving me a much better price.From UTG i'm folding 22-99 vs a 3bet oop.
 
eberetta1

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Yeah. I would be folding. Too many of my set mines that hit, sink because someone else did the same thing but hit with a higher pair.
 
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ph_il

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I would not call a 3bet OOP with 22-55.. And as far as I know these hands are not in a default opening range for EP as it's -EV. Especially in cash games.
So, if effective stacks are 500 BBs deep, you open 2.5BB UTG2 with 55 and villain 3bets to 10 BBs, you would fold?
 
iwont20

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So, if effective stacks are 500 BBs deep, you open 2.5BB UTG2 with 55 and villain 3bets to 10 BBs, you would fold?
Idk why you take such small stacks for example to comment on my post. Just for the sake to pick on it?

Obviously you play different if you play that deep. But how much time you play like that? In cash games the stack gonna be 100BB a vast majority of the time, in MTT you may have that stack, but like for 5% of tournament length at best. So I stick to my comment as it's true for a large percentage of samples.

And why would you open 2.5x if effective stack is 500BB :hmmmm:
 
Misaki

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it's all about creating your ranges preflop. If you open let's say 16% from MP then you want to defend vs a 3bet something like 7-8% OOP. Of course on smallest stakes like nl2-nl5 I wouldn't care much about it but on higher stakes you just don't want to be exploitable. That's why we defend around 50% from range we open on any positions. If you open 50% from BU then you want to defend 25%. So if you open from MP 16% then you create your defending range which includes 4bets for value, 4bets for bluff and call vs 3bets.If you will work on that (I won't give you an example,just do your homework) then you will see that small pocket pairs are clearly fold there. (unless someone gives you great odds). And as someone mentioned small pocket pairs shouldn't be even in your opening range like from EP. Because it's really hard to make profit with them nowadays. But still there are some exceptions like recreational player on BB. Poker is not that simple that in few words you will get your answer. If one guys says: you can call PP to 3bets and 2nd guy will tell you: you have to fold PP to 3bets then they can be both right or they can be both wrong. Because there are many factors we have to always consider. Of course what I said here is mostly advices to cash games. In mtts some things are different. Topic is too huge.
 
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kraurwhite

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Depends on position, on the size of my stack, the size of the other players stack.

For example I am BB with 44 and have the big stack and someone in late or the SB does a 3 BB raise. Iwould go all in
 
dunkyhory

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This is the tool i use to work on my ranges.
https://combonator.com/

Use some preflop hand carts to work out your RFI (what you open from each position).And you want to defend something around 30%-40% and fold around 60%-70% as a default. Folding over 72% is the auto pfofit number for villain so you really should be looking for a minimum defence frequency of 28% assuming it's standard preflop sizing's. You'll find you defend wider than your default figure any way because you'll get better prices in spots with small 3bets and multi way pots and deep stacks etc... So i would expect to be defending 5%-10% more often than my default figure.

So if i went through a basic UTG vs 3bet range i plug in an UTG range let's say around 13% - 55+,ATs+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,AJo+,KQo.So i plug that range in combonator and click on To postflop and postflop top right, and then i can plug in a defending range from my opening range.So i can
Call - QQ-TT,AKs,AKo
4bet - KK+,AQs-AJs as my value and bluffs giving me a fold of 66% vs a 3bet from UTG and defending 34% expect that to drop another 5%-10% as i said earlier because of other situations. And obviously the wider you open from each position the wider your Vs 3bet defending ranges become. Personally i just work my ranges for oop spots so on the tighter side as a default. Then i can just widen the ranges slightly ip if i need to. so just drop down to AQs for example and 99. It's very easy to visualise once you know a set of ranges for oop. And you just repeat the process for every position.
 
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Luvart

Luvart

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I would not call a 3bet OOP with 22-55.. And as far as I know these hands are not in a default opening range for EP as it's -EV. Especially in cash games.

Good point.

And I agree for the cash games. I think at cash, these hands are even more marginal. But again sometimes you have the odds to make a call and it's quite tempting.
 
NHequalsFU

NHequalsFU

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I'm talking about 55-22, maybe the 66.

Let's say opening from early/middle position and facing a 3bet from the CO. Is it always a set-mining thing? If I have the odds to call, I call. If not, I don't call.

These baby pairs are pretty much useless if not improved to a set.

Thoughts?


Depends on the opponent and 3bet sizing.

If it is an extremely tight villain and a big 3bet I would likely fold.

A small 3-bet makes it good odds to set mine.
 
FlamengoBR

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Mini raise pre flop,C bet in the flop if someone call so you have to decide check or a heavy check raise.
 
akmost

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This spot have several factors to consider but if I am not mistaken in a MTT(100bbs deep) the smallest PP you can open raise from EP is 55 and you flat the 3bet with something like 66 , 77 , 88 and maybe 99. We have to take into account some 4bets with 99+ here.Huge topic!!22,33,44 are auto fold from EP. OK if you are sitting in the tightest table ever then you can widen our range a little bit,I guess.

You will hit your set approximately 1/10 times and we have to take into consideration, as many previous posters mentioned, 3bet size and villains stack!
 
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smk77

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I also think in EP 22-44 are definitely a fold almost every time.

55-77 depend on who the other player is and both stack sizes. Sometimes call, sometimes fold. Then move to the flop and assess the situation. If multiway, I would lean towards folding.
 
Luvart

Luvart

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I would say I agree about the tiny pairs 44-22. I think that they are a fold in the majority of cases.

The 66s and 55s are a bit on the edge. The more experience you have, the better you can play these hands postflop and stay away from dominated situations.
 
cranberry

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I would not call 3-bet with small pocket pairs. But it all depends on the position, size of the stack and the style of play of the oponients. It turns out that we get a set on the flop in 11% of cases, i.e. we have to call a bet less than 11% of our stack in order to play plus.
 
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CallmeFloppy

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I tend to not call with small pairs to a 3 bet.
 
Eric Salvador

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UTG-MP I will not play these hands at tables that are frequently 3betting. From the LoJack to the C/O I'd also consider laying this hand down. At nearly all times you're either racing or behind. When you're 3 bet a lot of the hands are going to be AJ+ and pocket pairs. When making this call you're set mining unless villain has be playing a wide range or you can put him on a hand like AK and with a low flop you can bet him off this hand. There's other exceptions but majority of the time this is what you'll be facing.
 
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burnthesky

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I'm talking about 55-22, maybe the 66.

Let's say opening from early/middle position and facing a 3bet from the CO. Is it always a set-mining thing? If I have the odds to call, I call. If not, I don't call.

These baby pairs are pretty much useless if not improved to a set.

Thoughts?


there not useless you still often have best hand postflop just its high variance and marginal stressful if you want to battle for the pot and take alot or certain ones to showdown on certain textures or if you block a hand or have a good bluff to apply pressure to their most likely range large chunck regardless of your holding (eg knowing your out drawn but turning you made hand into a bluff as you already no its now got naff all showdown value but equally they shouldnt have a holding often enough to stack off commit) there not useless there just more stressful and swingier situations if your trying to fight for your fair share of the pot
 
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